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JacJacJacqui 
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Location: B-town represent
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| Alec. J. Hidell wrote: | David, answer this as honestly as you can.
If Australia was invaded by some foreign nation, and that nation, dissolved our government, destroyed our cities, killed your neighbours, introduced new laws which you had no say in, took from us all we held dear, what would you do to get it back?
And if you decided that you would fight in any manner imaginable, would that make you a terrorist? |
Sorry but I don't think this was a very good example to use to argue your case. The answer is obvious but it has no bearing on the reasons behind 9/11.
On another topic, I personally don't believe the towers were packed with explosives. I find it hard to believe that no one noticed a bunch of men rigging the stairwells and/or offices with explosives? Mind you, explosives experts surveyed the WTC site after the collapse and found not one single shred of evidence to support this theory. There are, however, a lot of unanswered questions. So many in fact, that I believe there HAS to be a cover up of some kind. What I don't understand is - If the "war on terror" is a war on terror and not just an oil seeking expedition, why are troops in Iraq (where alleged terrorist Saddam has already been found and killed) and not looking for the alleged perpetrator of the 9/11 attacks Bin Laden in Afghanistan where they should be? Is Afghanistan a little too oil barren? And another thing, why was the WTC insured against "acts of terror" during the week prior to the attacks? Coincidence?
_________________
Pirate skulls and bones
Sticks and stones and weed and bombs
Running when we hit 'em
Lethal poison through their system |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Jacqui, I'm pretty sure troops are currently in Afghanistan? As for your other questions, I have no idea.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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JacJacJacqui
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Location: B-town represent
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Just seems the search for Bin Laden has been forgotten.
_________________
Pirate skulls and bones
Sticks and stones and weed and bombs
Running when we hit 'em
Lethal poison through their system |
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Alec. J. Hidell
Joined: 12 May 2007
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The Twin Towers had their insurance policy renewed prior to the attack, it was not a new policy.
They were insured against Acts of Terror after the first attempt by AQ to blow it up in 1993.
Has it occurred to you that perhaps they don't want to find Bin Laden?
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The one man in the world, who never believes he is mad, is the madman. |
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fan4collingwood 
Joined: 17 May 2002
Location: Seaford Rise , Adelaide SA Australia
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| jack_spain wrote: | Well there's no doubt Alec J. Hidell = Frank Stone.
Here's the proof. The original posting...
| jack_spain wrote: | | Frank Stone wrote: | | jack_spain wrote: | ^ Credibility and politics? Frank you are an idealist.   |
No, I'm a thinker, hey it works for me |
The changed post...
| Alec. J. Hidell wrote: | | jack_spain wrote: | | ^ Credibility and politics? Frank you are an idealist. |
No, I'm a thinker, hey it works for me |
You Frank? |
Alec J. Hidell? |
That puts an end to the Frank Stone is Joffa conspiracy! But that might be another thread 
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Kaylene.
Member of the SA Magpies, http://samagpies.magpies.net
Official Supporters’ Group of the Collingwood Football Club |
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Alec. J. Hidell
Joined: 12 May 2007
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I think Franks Stone really was Joffa.
I got pretty good inside information, trust me on this one.
Think about, when one got sick, the other one suddenly disappeared.
_________________
The one man in the world, who never believes he is mad, is the madman. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| JacJacJacqui wrote: | | Just seems the search for Bin Laden has been forgotten. |
| Alec. J. Hidell wrote: | | Has it occurred to you that perhaps they don't want to find Bin Laden? |
I'm so sick of hearing about that guy... people who think that his capture will have any meaningful effect have been watching too many Disney movies, and Bush (and now McCain) simply pandered to that mindset with all that 'bringing Bin Laden to justice' rubbish. It's easier for people to believe in a boogeyman, or some Hitleresque 'bad guy' than realise some things are bigger than just one person or organisation.
It's sometimes easier to criticise than to suggest improvement, but almost everything America has done in terms of foreign policy since the September 11 attacks has been flawed, and as such has resulted in the deaths of many of their soldiers and foreign civilians. True, they had to respond in some manner, and some of their achievements may have been positive, but any such positives seem to pale in comparison with the amount of destruction that the USA has caused. Conspiracy or otherwise, perhaps that is the real tragedy of September 11.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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fan4collingwood
Joined: 17 May 2002
Location: Seaford Rise , Adelaide SA Australia
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| Alec. J. Hidell wrote: | I think Franks Stone really was Joffa.
I got pretty good inside information, trust me on this one.
Think about, when one got sick, the other one suddenly disappeared. |
But you are still posting Alec, and the man in gold is still in Hospital.
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Kaylene.
Member of the SA Magpies, http://samagpies.magpies.net
Official Supporters’ Group of the Collingwood Football Club |
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jack_spain
Joined: 03 May 2008
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I've deliberately avoided entering this debate as we all know the topic has been done to death.
But I will say this much in support of David.
(1) If Bin Laden was ever the issue for the American security forces then they would have caught him now. Remember that he was for many years on the CIA payroll.
(2) Why did they take months to launch raids in Afghanistan in a case of "Where's Osama?" By this stage they had made the fateful move to attack Iraq on the now patently false claims of WMDs. Moreover, Saddam Hussein never had any links with Al Quaeda - his moderate secular form of Islam was a world away from the fundamentalist ferment of Bin Laden and his ilk. [BTW these people are not truly religious, but dress up their hatreds in religious language to hide and "justify" their evil intent.]
(3) During the 48 hour ban on all aircraft movements in the US after 9/11 all Bin Ladens and his Saudi acquaintances in American were secretly flown out of the country before the FBI had an opportunity to interview them (this has been well documented).
(4) We know that the Bush family had extensive dealings with the Saudis, but particularly the Bin Ladens, as they were an extremely wealthy family prepared to invest in the Bush oil company in Texas.
(5) As Malcolm X said of the JFK assassination, "The chickens always come home to roost." America's financial meltdown is due in no small part the the way the war in Iraq has virtually bankrupted the nation. The US has been for many years the world's largest debtor nation. Now those debts are being called in.
So what could they have done differently?
We all know that immediately after 9/11 the whole world's sympathy seemed to lie with the US. Here was an unprecedented opportunity to seize the initiative in tackling world (but particularly Middle Eastern) security. Rather than to become bellicose, the US should have taken the stand of condemning the outrageous attacks and saying they would not stoop to the level of violence the terrorists used, but would redouble their efforts to work for peaceful diplomatic solutions. In other words, take the sting out of the terrorists' tail. These people feed off violence, and as all non-violent theorists have argued, violence begats violence. Even Jesus said, "You live by the sword, you die by the sword."
We know the Americans did exactly the opposite. Is the world today a more secure place? Of course not. It is the sheer frustration at a lost opportunity for peace that drives most of these conspiracy theories.
[Some conspiracy theories are whacky, but some are more plausible. I tend to think the US security forces knew in advance a lot of the details of the attacks and let them happen, so that a Neo-con war on Iraq could be prosecuted. For that reason alone I hope George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and co are eventually brought to justice and tried as war criminals.] |
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JacJacJacqui
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Location: B-town represent
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| Alec. J. Hidell wrote: |
Has it occurred to you that perhaps they don't want to find Bin Laden? |
No, it hasn't actually. Why do you think they might not want to find him?
You may think it's more than one person or organisation but finding that one person who claimed responsibility for the attacks would help to put some minds at ease and show that they are actually trying to do something about it. The only single bit of progress where the "war on terror" is concerned was the capture of Saddam. Like that's supposed to be some kind of pacifier for another 5-10 years while the "war" rages on for no good reason. It's ridiculous. I think the troops should just get the hell out of there, they've been there too long as it is..
_________________
Pirate skulls and bones
Sticks and stones and weed and bombs
Running when we hit 'em
Lethal poison through their system |
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Alec. J. Hidell
Joined: 12 May 2007
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| fan4collingwood wrote: | | Alec. J. Hidell wrote: | I think Franks Stone really was Joffa.
I got pretty good inside information, trust me on this one.
Think about, when one got sick, the other one suddenly disappeared. |
But you are still posting Alec, and the man in gold is still in Hospital. |
ah ha, so my cunning ploy has worked
_________________
The one man in the world, who never believes he is mad, is the madman. |
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Alec. J. Hidell
Joined: 12 May 2007
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| JacJacJacqui wrote: | | Alec. J. Hidell wrote: |
Has it occurred to you that perhaps they don't want to find Bin Laden? |
No, it hasn't actually. Why do you think they might not want to find him?
You may think it's more than one person or organisation but finding that one person who claimed responsibility for the attacks would help to put some minds at ease and show that they are actually trying to do something about it. The only single bit of progress where the "war on terror" is concerned was the capture of Saddam. Like that's supposed to be some kind of pacifier for another 5-10 years while the "war" rages on for no good reason. It's ridiculous. I think the troops should just get the hell out of there, they've been there too long as it is.. |
There are many and varied reasons.
1. If OBL was captured, it would change nothing, AQ is a very lose alignment of fundamentalists.
2. OBL was a paid employee of the CIA, he knows where the bodies are buried.
3. If OBL was captured there are quite a few, even more fundamental, who would take over, Twin Towers would seem like a 'tea party' compared to what they want.
4. Many senior figures within Saudi Arabia still financially and politically support OBL.
5. OBL was never the 'real' issue, Oil was. OBL was a 'smoke screen' to steal Iraqi Oil.
6. If OBL was captured, the 'war on terror' may need to be cut back. The Military and the Industrialists who supply the Military, would not want that.
7. The US needs to maintain control over the Oil sea lanes and maintain a Militaty prescence in the Gulf, if OBL was gone, what is the reason for staying?
I could go on, but you get the idea.
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The one man in the world, who never believes he is mad, is the madman. |
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JacJacJacqui
Joined: 13 Jun 2008
Location: B-town represent
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Yeah I do get the idea. Especially number 5.
_________________
Pirate skulls and bones
Sticks and stones and weed and bombs
Running when we hit 'em
Lethal poison through their system |
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sherrife
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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| JacJacJacqui wrote: | | Alec. J. Hidell wrote: |
Has it occurred to you that perhaps they don't want to find Bin Laden? |
You may think it's more than one person or organisation but finding that one person who claimed responsibility for the attacks would help to put some minds at ease and show that they are actually trying to do something about it. The only single bit of progress where the "war on terror" is concerned was the capture of Saddam. Like that's supposed to be some kind of pacifier for another 5-10 years while the "war" rages on for no good reason. It's ridiculous. I think the troops should just get the hell out of there, they've been there too long as it is.. |
You're exactly right about the wars Jacqui, Frank is right about OBL.
Just another point: they don't care about putting minds at ease, even of their own voters. The only thing they care about is controlling middle-eastern oil and having strategic army bases near Russia and China - Hello Georgia!
That's why Jack is living in dream world. He thinks somehow that the US wants peace and love and harmony. It doesn't. Like every other nation (including Australia) it just wants to control and dominate as much as it can. Everything that has followed from 9/11 has been planned and logical from their perspective.
We only have the Iraqi resistance to thank for bringing their plans to a complete stop.
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I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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Alec. J. Hidell
Joined: 12 May 2007
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And thank Allah, that some Iraqi's refuse to accept the US Imperialism that is being thrust on them, eventually I believe they will win this thing.
Unfortunately it may result in a 3 state compromise but even that is better than the US version of "Democracy" which entails nothing more than legalised theft.
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The one man in the world, who never believes he is mad, is the madman. |
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