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dalyc 
Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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| rocketronnie wrote: | | CamGivesMeWood wrote: | | rocketronnie wrote: | | fence-banger wrote: | Rocket, you've been pretty free with the insults yourself!
You've also done pretty well in trying to address each point raised by us numbskulls in this thread. Well that is, you've been methodical, but not necessarily convincing IMHO.
And still, as far as I can see, you haven't explained how your suggestion of changing the Umpiring Boss automatically leads to improved umpiring?? |
Geez is there enough bandwidth here to explain this one?
I'll keep it short cos I reckon you'll agree with this.
Geoff Geischen is an incompetent. He was an incompetent coach at The Tigers - disorganized, uncreative, not very motivating. After he lost his job at The Tigers he was taken on by the AFL, where he has the job of interpreting the Rules Committee Circus (RCC) decisions. Under his tutelage umpiring has become more inconsistent than it has ever been before. Interpretations have become reactive, often dependent on what the media are saying, and have become changeable from week to week. No wonder umpires and players have difficulties with them, essentially the rules are changing week to week.
The emphasis on paying technical frees over instinctive contextual frees (where the free is an infringement on the players ability to play the game successfully rather than a technical free for an infringement that may be an accident or was the result of the flow of the game) means that umpires are paying everything they see and some they think they see (Foley done for incorrect disposal when the umpire couldn't see it but guessed he threw it when he actually handballed it on Sat night). They would rather cover their ass than let the game flow. Why? As some ex-umpires have implied, they are pulled up by Geischen et al if they do not. Given that umpires have a split second to make up their minds re decisions, the less changes in interpretation they have to deal with in a year the better. Umpiring was better in the 90's, 80's and 70's because there was far more consistency in interpretation. Everyone knew what they are getting. These days you don't know what the interpretation is until the round is almost over. No wonder Umps and players seem confused.
I'd like to see Geischen gone, and Bartlett and Co also. Clearly they have a mechanistic and overly rule-driven view of how the rules should be interpreted, and one that is at odds with how the game is being played. I'd like to see recent ex-players and an ex-coach (Sheedy?) with some ex-umpires running the show on the Umpires' Committee, and the Rules Committee run by nominees from all the clubs (and no KB!).
The game needs rule stability not the lucky dip Geischen and Co serve up now.
There may be problems with my suggestions but they couldn't do a worse job than the current clowns. New incumbents with an agenda of rule consistency and letting the game evolve as it will, rather than trying to force it to be something else by reactive technical rule changes, could bring about positive change to umpiring. |
I whole-heartedly agree. Awesomely well put Ronnie.
And the whole debacle is tolerated because it creates a big, fat margin of error within which the umpires can easily favour one team over the other, and blame 'interpretation' and the lag of players to become accustomed with new rules, rather than the real reason: intentional bias. |
You had me until that last line!
I think the reason it's tolerated is because the current administration and The RCC are incapable of admitting they got it wrong. They do it in every other aspect of the AFL administration, why should this one be any different?
Here's a question for you Cam - IF there was an intentional bias - what do the AFL as a body get out of letting it flourish? |
I've got one. CFC don't need more supporters, other clubs do. By letting intentional bias flourish against us, other clubs chances of gathering support increases. As an aside, which Grand Finalists in the last 10 years have lost players due to suspension, and which haven't, though perhaps could have?
BTW, just because I have given a suggestion here doesn't necessarily mean that I agree that intentional bias exists.
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Breadcrawl
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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| dalyc wrote: |
BTW, just because I have given a suggestion here doesn't necessarily mean that I agree that intentional bias exists. |
It's a dangerous contention to agree with, isn't it?
I do understand. No one wants to be labelled a 'typical f&*king one-eyed Collingwood supporter.' So I don't blame those who aren't comfortable with the idea.
It's another reason the bastards get away with it.
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fence-banger 
Zito Kypro
Joined: 14 Feb 2008
Location: northcote
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Noooo, hang on there, band width ain't got anything to do with logic, reason, rational thought etc.
Your claim Rocket, is that by changing the Umpiring Boss, we'll get improved umpiring. Not what you've banged-on about!
Obviously a change in direction, the way we'd like things to be, is the point here ~ just getting rid of Geischen is pointless. In fact, would probably just serve to feed into the charade ~ that the AFL is finally addressing the real issues, haha, as if!
Noooo, the real point is that this intentional bias is long-standing, years & years of it, to the point where most people are bluffed into believing it isn't a conspiracy afterall!
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Geek
geek
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Jacana
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Because football is theatre.
Every week, it's some new soap opera drama. It starts with those s*** for brains on the 5th Quarter, breathlessly crapping on about The Week's Big Story From Tonight and by monday, everyone from Shite Mike to TCT's missus is selling column inches of outrage. (Outrage works well in Melbourne btw. Sorry guys, but it's kinda noticable).
Anyway, the clubs, players and fans are all framed differently so as to fit the script so that the product sells well - on the tv and in new markets. No wonder our young players get frustrated. They work hard for an employer they were bonded out to and must surely realise that the brand is bigger than the sport they loved. It'd piss me off to work and dream so hard, only to find yourself working for Vince McMahon. That all that effort will only get you as far as the Big Picture will allow.
I said it here before, but sometimes you need an outsider's point of view on this. And I quote that Sydney-sider, back in '05:
"Look mate. It's not a bad game, I just don't like it. And you give us all the f***ing premierships you like. But if I want to watch something that contrived, I'll watch the wrestling. At least they put on some biffo"
Umps betting on games:
Meh... I think Vlad might have a contact or two that does. It's his glasses. They remind me of something out of that movie Casino. Whoever is playing the pies usually pays well since so many of us get on the boys for a win. So yeah if you were someunderworld dude that needed to clean some cash, would this not be a way to do it? Whether or not it happens is a totally different thing, but...
... If I was match fixing, it would have more to do with half time scores as nobody's really looking at that. But check it out some time. It's been fascinating.
Otherwise, we've done ourselves no favours by making ourselves so hated. It is only natural that things don't get seen, even by those making an effort to be impartial. (The fact that they have to make an effort is a give away).
1 thing.... I don't trust Schmitt. Not levelling any accusations. Not saying anything that would jeopardise me or this board. But my personal opinion is one that I've heard shared by a growing number of fans and a certain coach who will undoubtedly retract it all and say how wrong he was. Maybe he's just a hack. Maybe he's just trying to be bigger than Chamberpot. For some, infamy is a valid substitute for fame. Maybe then again it is something more sinister.
Maybe one day a bunch of memos will be leaked and everyone will all stand around dumbfounded saying "how could this have happened?" While everyone outside the sport asks "with so much cash, power, secrecy and control how could you have been so naïve?" Oh that's right... whenever it was questioned some dude always ridiculed it down as a conspiracy theory - you know... like the Bushies.
Beyond that... Mmmm.... perhaps they're just ensuring that the paying public get what they want. A bit of theatre. A bit of sport. Characters to boo and hiss at. Heroes to cheer. And a few enduring stories, like ours.
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Geek
geek
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Jacana
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And sorry Turts about the missus call if I'm wrong. But from memory it was you telling Hotrods about your predilection for egg based desserts last year. If it was someone else, then I was talking about their missus instead 
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Geek
geek
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Location: Jacana
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| Quote: | Otherwise, we've done ourselves no favours by making ourselves so hated. It is only natural that things don't get seen, even by those making an effort to be impartial.
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jack dyer certainly didn't look to further our cause back in the 60s.
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fence-banger
Zito Kypro
Joined: 14 Feb 2008
Location: northcote
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To have us squabbling amongst ourselves as to whether or not there is an AFL conspiracy, firing-off blanks at one another, is of course to be sucked-into the game the AFL wants us, the supporters, to be playing ~ it's a very effective tool, designed to distract us from the Main game.
It means our eyes are off the ball .....
the Real main game is Survival & Empire-building, and in their heads, in order to keep ahead of the pack (eg other sporting codes), the AFL employs certain strategies, including the intentional bias which negatively impacts on our Club.
This then plays-out in related spheres, such as in the media, within the competition, marketing & so on.
Works well, very effective, except no bonus points for our Club in this game! It effectively isolates & disempowers our Club, us.
Someone has to be the bunny, the one everyone loves to hate etc .... that's our Club.
If our Club could please stop playing the part of wanting to be the Hated One, then our part in the main game would Have to change.
Being so hated works counter to our needs, desires, aims, goals, so bl**** obvious, so boring, so disappointing, so easy to work out for heavans sakes!
That's the key, to break the monotonous charade that distracts us all & works to collude with AFL strategy.
Please think about it .... we're The Hated Ones, that's the role we play; then think about the roles other Clubs play, it's in our faces but so hard to see?
In 1990, we had the public on-side.
It is NO coincidence that this happened also to be Our Year.
There was so little hatred for us that year, no vendettas being played-out, so little of 'let's keep laughing at Collingwood, that makes us feel good' etc.
No, it was far from that ...... we had broken-thru the barrier of set role-play and it worked!
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cobood 
In Bucks I trust!
Joined: 19 Oct 2000
Location: Northern Subs Melbourne
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^ beautifully said... and very true!
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Breadcrawl
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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| Breadcrawl wrote: | Power.
Collingwood, in terms of membership, sponsorship appeal, crowd-drawing power, is a juggernaut, and it advantages us in ways the draft and salary cap can't restrict. Demetriou is a huge power-tripper and I'm sure it bugs him that in some ways one club is almost as big as the game itself.
Do you doubt that interstate clubs have monopolised the ultimate success for the majority of this decade because the AFL willed it to be so? I can provide reams of evidence if you doubt this contention - I don't think many Collingwood supporters are in the dark about this - we were on the receiving end.
As a body, we are gluttons for punishment - the most spectacularly unsuccessful club in the comp, that has seemingly grown in strength every time we lost a Grand Final. If the AFL needed a whipping boy, don't we make perfect sense?
Then there's DTM's spurious theory about umps betting on the games. I think this unprobable. But I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone connected closely to Demetriou made an absolute shitload of money on Saturday backing the Dons. What do you need to create this profit-making opportunity? A huge group of passionate supporters putting their hardearned on their beloved Pies.
That, Ronnie, is all opinion, pure opinion, and there is no evidence. They are theories I have formed in order to explain phenomena which occur before my eyes.
I coach an amateur team, and on Sunday, for some unknown reason, the umpire favoured my team. It was apparent to me, and I spoke to the players at halftime about taking advantage of it.
It made me think, "I must be capable of some objectivity, since I don't think we deserved all of those free kicks. I felt sorry for the Dons on Anzac Day when they coldn't take a trick with the umpires. So why did I feel so infuriated on Saturday at the MCG, and why do I feel like that so often watching the Pies?"
I have no doubts it's happening mate. As I said, the reasons above make sense to me, but they are my theories only. |
Bump - in response to barrybc's post
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