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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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David you seem to know about these things so in relation to the GLBTI acronym can I ask if Lesbians are Gay why is both the words Gay and Lesbian in the acronym?
Should it be shortened down to look something like a Euro hothatch GTI. |
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CP
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Melbourne
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| 1061 wrote: | David you seem to know about these things so in relation to the GLBTI acronym can I ask if Lesbians are Gay why is both the words Gay and Lesbian in the acronym?
Should it be shortened down to look something like a Euro hothatch GTI. |
I prefer they keep adding letters. It's intriguing to wonder what's next.
It seems to gather a new sub-genre of gayness every year!
'T' & 'I' are Johnny Come Lately's... |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| think positive wrote: | | Let me guess your about 60? |
Mid 30s, would it matter either way? |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| CP wrote: | | 1061 wrote: | David you seem to know about these things so in relation to the GLBTI acronym can I ask if Lesbians are Gay why is both the words Gay and Lesbian in the acronym?
Should it be shortened down to look something like a Euro hothatch GTI. |
I prefer they keep adding letters. It's intriguing to wonder what's next.
It seems to gather a new sub-genre of gayness every year!
'T' & 'I' are Johnny Come Lately's... |
LGBTQ isn't it? When did the I drop in? I assume that's intersex but that's not a sexual orientation, it's an unfortunate birth defect. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | Political lesbianism.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/30/women-gayrights
I should note that this is an extraordinarily extreme viewpoint and not one shared by many radical feminists (let alone feminists in general), but it does have its prominent supporters (including Sheila Jeffreys, gender politics lecturer at University of Melbourne). Honestly, words fail me. |
I have a lot of time for Sheila Jeffries (I don't agree with all that she says) but she's a powerhouse of an intellect.
I remember many years ago when SEN first started & Bill Brownless had her on for a brief interview in the morning show - we'll straight through to the keeper was the best way to describe it - he was polite & so was she: may as well have been talking double Dutch to Cambodians 
My youngest has had her this year & last (I think) for some lectures & finds her a good & challenging lecturer from what I understand.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Wokko wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Let me guess your about 60? |
Mid 30s, would it matter either way? |
very young to be so jaded 
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| Wokko wrote: | | LGBTQ isn't it? When did the I drop in? I assume that's intersex but that's not a sexual orientation, it's an unfortunate birth defect. |
So's the T though isn't it. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| watt price tully wrote: | | David wrote: | Political lesbianism.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2009/jan/30/women-gayrights
I should note that this is an extraordinarily extreme viewpoint and not one shared by many radical feminists (let alone feminists in general), but it does have its prominent supporters (including Sheila Jeffreys, gender politics lecturer at University of Melbourne). Honestly, words fail me. |
I have a lot of time for Sheila Jeffries (I don't agree with all that she says) but she's a powerhouse of an intellect.
I remember many years ago when SEN first started & Bill Brownless had her on for a brief interview in the morning show - we'll straight through to the keeper was the best way to describe it - he was polite & so was she: may as well have been talking double Dutch to Cambodians
My youngest has had her this year & last (I think) for some lectures & finds her a good & challenging lecturer from what I understand. |
She certainly seems to be an engaging speaker, but I think some of the content could do with a bit of work:
| Sheila Jeffreys wrote: | | So, what I think is very fascinating is that theres a connection between the very jolly Blair government and their Gender Recognition Act and Iran. They love transgenderism because it does help to get rid of this serious problem of homosexuality and it enforces gender. Right? So we do need to be fighting, I think, transgenderism as a state project in terms of gender. |
I'd be the last person to condemn someone for not toeing a politically correct line, but some of her rhetoric (and that of her ideological fellow travelers) regarding transsexuality veers very close to hate speech. I'm not sure where the line between political incorrectness and bigotry lies, but some of these people well and truly cross it.
I also find their views on sex workers highly patronising. As, unsurprisingly, do many sex workers. And their views on men, well, where do you start?
In any case, I'm all for radical feminist separatism (i.e. the view that all contact with men should be avoided). Think about it: everyone wins.
| 1061 wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | LGBTQ isn't it? When did the I drop in? I assume that's intersex but that's not a sexual orientation, it's an unfortunate birth defect. |
So's the T though isn't it. |
Regardless, people in both categories deserve the right to pursue happy and fulfilling lives. If identifying as part of the wider queer community assists in that (for the purposes of both identity and achieving a more significant voice in advocacy), then good on them. When it comes to transsexuals, radical feminist academics and their right-wing allies are the most powerful groups standing in the way of that.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Mon Nov 04, 2013 11:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Where is the hate speech there? You are back on your bash-the-feminist bike today, and I don't see any justification for it, certainly not in my quick skim-read of that article you linked to. (I found nothing objectionable there. There are views which I don't agree with, but it would be a sad world if we all agreed about everything.) Did I miss something? Or are you just bashing your favourite hate-target again?
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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You must have missed this link:
http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/sheila-jeffreys-the-mccarthyism-of-transgender-and-the-sterilization-of-transgender-children/
Read some of the comments and tell me that this does not constitute hate speech:
| Quote: | | None of the trans cult seem to be aware that most feminists who oppose them first were open to some extent, not wanting to hurt their feelings. It was how they acted on every level that quickly proved to us that they were very much men, even with surgery and hormones. SCAMs (Surgically/chemically altered males) indeed. THEY caused us all to realize no male can become female. And its just a matter of time before all females realize this. The only thing delaying that is their intense propaganda and privilege, which they use to confuse and bully well-meaning women. But just look at them and hear them, and it is so clear. |
| Quote: | Well I hate to break it to you but you continue to exist, and you continue to be human, even if we all acknowledge the reality that you are female. A female who has injected herself with a whole lot of synthetic hormones.
Why do females like yourself do awful things to their own bodies? Self-hatred, internalized misogyny, addiction, social custom. But I would not equate self hatred with existence because one exists with or without the self-hatred. |
How would you feel if you were a male-to-female transsexual reading that? Like it or not, this is still a somewhat prevalent view in extreme radical feminist circles, and Sheila Jeffreys is the patron saint of this movement.
If you think I'm just writing this to bash feminists, perhaps you should try reading what mainstream feminists (radical or otherwise) themselves think of this lot:
http://www.salon.com/2013/07/11/the_hate_group_masquerading_as_inclusive_feminists_partner/
http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2008/08/19/an-apology-and-a-promise/
http://www.transadvocate.com/radfems-speak-out-against-terfs.htm
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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You are dreaming. That is not even close to hate speech. You need to learn the difference between "things you don't like" and "things that might hurt someone's feelings" and actual hate speech.
As for what some of the other ones say .... it's all been said before: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Anyway, if we can get back on topic, the point I'm trying to make is that you should pick your allies. It is actually possible to support feminism wholeheartedly while denouncing people like Jeffreys, Julie Birchall and Melinda Tankard-Reist. Honestly, for me, people like that are in the same league as Fred Phelps and David Irving. We don't need to humour them.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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David, I know very little about transgender. For me it would be very sad for any person to have this.
What I do know is that in my line of work the few I've met have shown themselves to be nasty, selfish, aggressive & violent individuals that appear to operate on self interest when in crisis resulting in a utter lack of any sense of other. Anti social personalities & borderline personality disorder in crisis.
I know staff who have been the victims of their anger or perfectly innocent bystanders become entrapped in their cycle of their so called maladaptive responses to perceived stress. The problem staff in emergency departments have is that the police are too often unwilling or tardy in charging people for assault, running out onto the street & throwing themselves on a slow moving vehicle feigning injury or even sustaining some light injuries.
Then again, I often get to see the worst in people at times i.e, a skewed sample - then there's the patients
I don't know enough about transgender per se to provide an informed comment.
I might ask The Mad Misogynist Miners Monk his views on the matter though
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Then again, I often get to see the worst in people at times i.e, a skewed sample |
Exactly. Which is why the rest of what you posted is actually kind of offensive. It's not much better than deriving observations about the general nature of, say, Indigenous people based on the individuals you interact with in your line of work or who I used to see outside the centre on Smith Street. Surely we're better than that.
If we're going with anecdotal stories, the few transsexuals I've known have been wonderful, friendly, well-adjusted people, although given the prejudice and small-mindedness they have to deal with on a constant basis I wouldn't blame some of them for being hypersensitive.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| watt price tully wrote: | | nasty, selfish, aggressive & violent individuals that appear to operate on self interest when in crisis resulting in a utter lack of any sense of other. |
You are in the wrong thread. Go to the post-election thread if you want to talk about Abbott.
| watt price tully wrote: | | Anti social personalities & borderline personality disorder in crisis |
Still in the wrong thread. Rudd doesn't belong here either.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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