The AFL's Robin Hood Plan (aka Robin Collingwood Plan)

[Joel]

I think this is off, www.afl.com.au, anyway...what's everybody's thoughts on the issue?

These clubs need the money BUT I think the AFL should be looking for alternate sources of revenue for these clubs. These other clubs should also be held accountable for the idiotic actions, ie. St.Kilda sacking blight with $1million + payout. Opinions?
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AFL's Robin Hood plan
By MARK STEVENS and MICHAEL GLEESON
05jun02

THE AFL plans to turn Robin Hood and take from the rich clubs to help the poor survive.

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A new equalisation paper in the hands of the AFL executive looks at stopping powerful clubs reaping all the cash from blockbusters.
Under some of the suggested changes Collingwood and Essendon would keep their Anzac Day game but up to two-thirds of gate profits could be taken from them.

That money could be shared between other clubs and possibly used to fund a radical proposal to standardise the break-even cost of staging matches at all grounds.

Under a possible subsidised formula, it would cost clubs the same break-even amount to host games at Colonial Stadium, the MCG and even York Park, Launceston.

Such a scheme would significantly improve the bottom line for struggling clubs St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs at Colonial Stadium.

Battling clubs would no longer have to look at playing home matches interstate to grab cash bonuses.

The equalisation discussion paper will soon be passed on to the AFL Commission and then clubs for comment.

Battling clubs would no longer have to look at playing home matches interstate to grab cash bonuses.

The equalisation discussion paper will soon be passed on to the AFL Commission and then clubs for comment.

While the paper raises issues rather than makes recommendations there is sure to be a massive backlash from the stronger clubs.

It is expected to take at least 12 to 18 months to thrash out possible further changes to obtain greater equalisation.

The "big four" -- Essendon, Collingwood, Carlton and Richmond -- have strongly defended their right to take the cash from blockbusters.

They say they should not be penalised for having the supporter base to fill the MCG for big games and for marketing and developing the games into big-drawing events.

But for years other clubs have complained about not getting a slice of the action and watching as the financial gap between them and the power clubs widens.

The AFL is happy for the big clubs to play in designated blockbusters because it believes two clubs of even middle-rung status would have little chance of generating the 80,000-plus crowds Collingwood and Essendon produce on Anzac Day.

But there is a feeling it is time to help the struggling "have nots".

Anzac Day creates a windfall of between $800,000 and $900,000 shared between Essendon and Collingwood.

All of the bigger clubs in blockbusters already pay a "blockbuster tax" to contribute more than the normal amount back to the AFL from the gate.

Under the sorts of changes the discussion paper raises the Pies and Bombers could be handing over half a million dollars more for the Anzac Day games.

The AFL believes an amount in the range of $300,000 is plenty for the two clubs to take, particularly considering the sponsorship, marketing and profile advantages of playing in a contest that has become second only to the Grand Final.

The rest would go into a pool, possibly distributed to other clubs or used to fund the plan to end clubs suffering from inconsistent break-even costs of putting on matches at different stadia.

In the equalisation paper, the AFL is also looking at seating premiums, questioning why Geelong can reap the benefits of high seating charges when MCG tenants have no access to such bounties.

It is believed the paper suggests if competing clubs share the gates, why shouldn't they share the profits from reserved seat premiums?

Although the salary cap and draft has had a major effect on equalisation, it is believed the AFL is concerned about the spending power of some clubs on the open market.

With coaches not under a cap, the cashed-up clubs find it much easier to dangle huge financial incentives to lure successful, big-name coaches.

The powerful clubs are also leaping ahead in terms of medical staff and facilities.

JDF

[ramjet21]

surprise surprise.

[ck_nd]

Some days I think that the only reason there is a comp to play in is because Collingwood want a comp to play in.

Like without Collingwood who else would make enough $$$ to be able to prop up the "have not" clubs who usually "have not" b/c of some stuff up on their part e.g. St Kilda's million payout of Blight and Sydney while they are doing crap are not getting anyone through the gates and so no doubt a big windfall will magically prop them up at the end of the year - like they do have that new training complex to pay for. Or have WE paid that off for them already?? : Not forgetting the Roos who have come off a very successful decade and are still broke and Briso who won the GF last season and still are in debt - what are they all doing??

To me if just confirms that the AFL only exists by Collingwood football clubs consent.

Thats right dip into our coffers u b@stards!! : Maybe if we save these mongrels AGAIN we have to put some clause in that the clubs that are propped up yet AGAIN have to be accountable for their actions and if they go broke again well.... soz - can't prop you up forever. This is for clubs that we consistantly have to prop up (which it is sad to lose a club and all the tradition that it has) need to realistic though every business that wants to stay in business has to make ends meet. (I run my own business so can vouch for that - maybe someone needs to spell it out to those clubs kinda simply... if you don't make the money you can't put the food on the table. When you run your own show you need to be ready to take the responsibility for it.)

I know that all clubs can go through a rough period - it was not all that long ago that we were a cool million in the red ourselves (Thanks for saving us Eddie ) Its not like we have consistantly remained up to our eyeballs in debt nor have we been a long term drain on the AFL. So I am not talking about getting rid of clubs that go through the odd bad period only to get back on track and get back to being successful its for the continual offenders who think that we are an endless money pit.

I just re-read the topic of this post and noticed the "Robin Collingwood Plan" and have to remark that there is a typo there... methinks it should say "Robbing Collingwood Plan"

Go Pies! You are doing us Proud.

Carol

May the Wings of the Magpie touch every corner of the Nation!

[This message has been edited by ck_nd (edited 05 June 2002).]

[junkboy75]

agree with your sentiments carol. whilst it is all very well to provide financial assistance to clubs, it is not addressing the systemic issues that got those clubs into strife in the first place. these issues include bad financial management, low supporter base, poor club culture, lack of sponsorship and more. they cannot be solved with mere handouts. what the AFL is proposing is very much a short term solution, as they cannot guarantee that the problems that afflicted the likes of the bulldogs, saints and roos won't happen again. it's like throwing good money after bad.

why should c'wood subsidise these clubs in addition to what they are already doing? clubs should take account of their own affairs and be realistic about things. it's no use whingeing about not playing blockbusters as it is clearly evident that they will not be able to draw the same crowds as c'wood, essendon, carlton etc..that is just a fact and the presidents of these clubs should face up to this. so, instead of playing blockbusters, they will now leech off the proceeds from those who can draw the crowds and pull in the money. well, this is just like cheating the dole isn't it.

clubs should face facts. 16 teams is sustainable but some will have to move interstate from melbourne - simple as that. maybe hawthorn to launceston, the roos to canberra, the saints to darwin, and the dogs to the gold coast. you can't be serious about an AUSTRALIAN football league if the majority of teams are based in melb.

"..we flew at them as a hawk to his prey, passed through them in the disordered state in which they were, separated them into two distinct parts and then tacked upon their largest division.." -- Captain Cuthbert Collingwood, 1797

[Joel]

Carol - When I types 'aka Robin Collingwood Plan', that is exactly what I meant...as in, Robbing Collingwood Plan.

JDF

[ck_nd]

Soz Joel, I without the apostrophe I wasn't sure if you meant Robin' i.e. to knock off from Collingwood or Robin i.e. the name.

Carol

May the Wings of the Magpie touch every corner of the Nation!

[Joel]

Sorry Carol, my typo. I didn't think of putting the apostrophe in.

JDF

[magpie joffa]

THEY CAN ALL GO AND GET THUCKED!!!

1892 _ 2002... THE PROUDEST JOURNEY IN FOOTBALL CONTINUES, WITH ARMS LOCKED TOGETHER,WHILST MARCHING SIDE BY SIDE, WE WILL FOREVER STAND AS ONE TO SUPPORT OUR BELOVED COLLINGWOOD FOOTBALL CLUB, it's more than just a club it's a way of life !.............................http://www.mp3.com/joffa

[Brown26]

I think the break even point being set by the AFL is a good idea - set it a little higher than the MCG, a little lower than Colonial, and everyone is fair and square there. TAking money form Collingwood and Essendon to pay for it doesn't quite seem fair though. The pies should refuse to play on Anzac day, sell out another game, and have 5 thousand watching melbourne try to play the bulldogs.

that'd teach the AFL. maybe.

Pies for Premiers 2002, 3, 4, 5, 6....

[junkboy75]

I believe the intention is to standardise the break-even margin for all, or most, grounds. this will benefit c'wood because the huge crowds that the pies attract will mean more profit. however, it is still a short term solution if those teams that are in difficulty remain in melb. the support base just is not there. think about it - if the BE margin is lowered, wouldn't that benefit a team that relocates interstate? they would not have to worry about huge losses through not getting enough people to the games. and in any case, hawthorn's games in tassie and the roos' games in canberra have shown that they pack them in, so why not move there permanently? I feel for the fans of those clubs, but a team interstate is better than no team, or a merged team.

"..we flew at them as a hawk to his prey, passed through them in the disordered state in which they were, separated them into two distinct parts and then tacked upon their largest division.." -- Captain Cuthbert Collingwood, 1797

[Brown26]

the thing with the break even point is one way ot make it even is to rip money from the blockbusters, another is to raise it at the MCG, to lower it at colonial, etc.

the problem is that optus, the gabba, scg etc don't have very high running costs, so the new break even point must be lower than, say, york park. that means the AFL has to find HEAPS of cash - so rip it from the pies and bombers. I don't agree with that part - get it from general AFL revenue perhaps, but not directly from blockbuster games.

Pies for Premiers 2002, 3, 4, 5, 6....

[bwphantom]

i have said all along that doggies should go to the gold coast. Roos to Canberra. St kilda to Darwin is a new one. Not a huge place and is coded pretty evenly mix with rugby.

We helped prop up Richmond in the early 90's and i believe we will assist other clubs where can be done because it is good for footy.

There is no doubt that the gap between the 4 big clubs and the others in Vic are widening. however, penalising the big clubs because they pull the crowds is wrong. I can see what they are trying to do but in the long run it is mis- management of funds that is the problem within these clubs. Throwing more money will not fix the problem, only advice and assistance in managing money is required.

I would like to see the Pies play in QLD. But in reality the Gabba fits only 32-33000. Colonial 44-45000. Colonial will amke more money for the AFL and clubs. This is appalling but the reality is that u go where the money is.

If your not bleeding Black and White, you don't truly support Collingwood!!!!!

[ramjet21]

i live in darwin - i dont want the bloody saints up here!!! but seriously, something needs to be done. the dogs to the gold coast was thought to be a done deal at one point....what happened? the roos to canberra is logical and hawthorn have been touting a move for awhile altho tassie wants its own team. wayne jackson was in darwin a couple of months ago and was adamant that an afl club wouldnt survive in darwin. operating costs of any club are about $20 million a year and the infrastructure just isnt here yet. however, i think he was referring to a new venture, not a club relocating like the saints. an established club could probably make a go of it and it sure would be nice to see the pies live up here for a game every year. collingwood has huge support in the NT, particularly with the large aboriginal population. the whole side is here for a training camp during the split round actually - should be great.

[Greg J]

I think it is time for the AFL to fold.

The clubs that can survive form a new self sustaining league, that does not piss money up the wall by signing long term deals with their mates.

This has all come about by the AFL's commitment to play so many games at Docklands, so many games at Princess Park, commitments not only to the stadiums themselves, but to TV networks, to ticketsellers, and to caterers. Long term commitments made by people who obviously could not forecast a snow storm in Antartica.

Why the hell should Collingwood bail out the AFL?

Rule 1. Barrack for Collingwood
Rule 2. See rule 1.
Rule 3. There is no rule 3.

CARN DE PIES!
Greg J

[Presti35]

This will never happen, but hey..:

Hawthorn to become 'Hobart Hawks' or 'Waverly Hawks'
St. Kilda to become 'West Sydney Saints'
Kangaroos to become 'Canberra Kangaroos'
Western Bulldogs to become 'Gold Coast Bulldogs'

Home Grounds:
Adelaide Crows - Football Park
Brisbane Lions - G.A.B.B.A
Canberra Kangaroos - Manuka Oval
Carlton Blues - Optus Oval
Collingwood Magpies - M.C.G
Essendon Bombers - Colonial Stadium
Fremantle Dockers - Subiaco Oval
Geelong Cats - Skilled Stadium
Gold Coast Bulldogs - Carrara Oval
Hobart Hawks - York Park or Waverly Hawks - Waverly Park
Melbourne Demons - M.C.G
Port Adelaide Power - Football Park
Richmond Tigers - M.C.G
Sydney Swans - S.C.G
West Coast Eagles - Subiaco Oval
West Sydney Saints - Stadium Australia

Grounds To Be Constructed:
York Park, Manuka Oval, Skilled Stadium, Carrara Oval and Waverly Park

Also heard a roumer that Kangas and Dogs to merge and become 'Waverly Panthers'

Collingwood will always be Collingwood, always be magpies, always be Black and White and always be the greatest club in history! and thats all that matters!

Who loves ya Presti?
WE DO!
Lets Go Elvis Preslygiacomo