Invasion day protest on Saturday

[sherrife]

[stui magpie]

Of course she has the right. That's completely different to spending the past 40 years obsessing about confronting him.

By letting it go and moving forward, she doesn't have to forget the pain and the other emptions, she's just not letting them rule her anymore.

If she'd let it go, she would be ably to confront him without having her emotions raw. He would no longer have a hold over her.

Try a different example. Someones partner dies. The person loved their partner very much and is understandably shattered.

Should they spend the rest of their life in mourning for their lost partner or get on with their life after a period of adjustment? If they find another partner does that make the love they felt for their previous partner any less or the pain they felt when they died any less?

Different examples, yes. But the principle is they same. Everyone can choose whether to let the past rule them, or whether to simply remember the lessons.

[nomadjack]

"I can accept the fact that the young generation...is not to blame. It was their fathers and grandfathers. But until they own up, they'll always be a pariah nation,"

This quote sums it up pretty succinctly for me. Don't see how you can argue with it.

[spoljar]

[Proud Pies]

*ignore*

[Proud Pies]

[Zakal]

I dont know the answer to this question, hence asking it, so don't take it as an antagonizing one, but returning to the Europe example.

Of a few of the bigger historical invasions to affect that continent...how many national apologies are on record as having being made?


Roman invasion of the known world? (going back a long way, but if the argument is being run that the Australian government has had 200years, then the amount of time seems relevant in some way)

Gothic invasion of the Roman empire?

English invasions of France?

French Napoleonic invasions of most of Europe?

....we are entering a pretty similar time period now....

Prussian invasion of Denmark?
Prussian invasion of Austria-Hungary?
Prussian invasion of France?

German invasion of Belgium?
German invasion of Poland?
German invasion of France?
German invasion of Russia?
...any German-invaded country

Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia?
Soviet invasion of Hungary?
Soviet invasion of Finland?
....any Soviet invaded country


Again, i ask this question in all seriousness, because if there is a consistent pattern of responsibility, apology and forgiveness in these examples, then the current state of the European Union suggests that this is indeed the model for all countries in similar situations to follow because it is one of the most invasion-rich continents on earth...with virtually no country completely free of it.

[spoljar]

[joffa corfe]

[spoljar]

[Zakal]

[David]

[nomadjack]

Don't really see how the examples you put forward are relevant Zakal. Firstly, they almost all refer to conflict between nation-states which was clearly not the same situation we are talking about. In this sense more applicable examples would be cases where nation-states have colonized other peoples, of which there are plenty of examples of apologies being put forward, eg 1993 US apology for invading Hawai in 1910; Canadian government apology and reparations paid to Innuit people in 1992.

I would even argue that German government apologies and reparations paid to Jewish victims of the Holocaust constitute a more relevant and applicable example to the Australian indigenous situation than the cases you raise

Secondly, and more importantly, in all of the examples you raise the original transgressor was eventually defeated and the pre-existing order was restored. In many of these cases formal apologies for actions and restorative reparations were included as part of the treaty arrangements.

The argument you make about the European Union is an interesting one. If you read much of the internation relations literature on apologies you will see that most theorists argue that Germany has been accepted in Europe by past enemies because of the lengths it has gone to to apologise and atone for the behaviour of the Nazi regime and to draw a distinct line between pre and post war Germany. Japan is often criticized for not making the same effort.

If anyone is interested there are some good points made in the following articles:

http://www.slate.com/id/1066/

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~jlind/research/LindAPSA2005.pdf

http://books.google.com/books?id=FP7rnBGFz8IC&pg=PA99&lpg=PA99&dq=german+apologies+for+invasions&source=web&ots=XVwPYzraKQ&sig=76cHK4cCH0NvRL_TdbbAY1mF218

Valid questions Spoljar.

1. From the Australian government on behalf of past governments and as representatives of the Australian people.

2. For many indigenous people symbolic recognition that wrongs were committed is an important precondition for putting the past behind them and moving on. Our failure to admit to any wrongdoing is paramount to saying what happened was acceptable and not that important. If you and I were friends and I did something that was a major slight on you, would you just accept this without demanding an apology and expect the relationship to continue as before?

3. If it lets them get on with their lives perhaps. The point is though that that's not for you or me to decide. The person deserving and receiving the apology is the one who gets to decide that.

Again, the quote I posted earlier sums it up for me:

"I can accept the fact that the young generation...is not to blame. It was their fathers and grandfathers. But until they own up, they'll always be a pariah nation,"

Who are we to dispute this?

[nomadjack]

[Proud Pies]