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sherrife 
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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| stui magpie wrote: | Invasion Omar?
20/20 hindsight is a beautiful thing, looking at history through modern eyes would make a lot of things "wrong", but at the time; in the society as they were; they were considered right.
Lots of societies over the world have been "colonised" or "invaded". Most of Europe would be a hotch potch of differing influences depending on which cultre was dominant for longest. |
Yea, yea, but not many societies still refuse to acknowledge that history. In Mexico for example the biggest Museum in the country is dedicated to the many nations and civilisations that existed prior to colonisation. That process is also described in all its violence both in the museum and in the 'official history' taught in schools.
Compare that to the disgusting situation here, where there is barely a mention of Indigenous Australians at school, let alone mainstream public institutions dedicated to achieving some sense of justice.
| stui magpie wrote: |
We need to get WAAAAAYYYY beyond "this was our land and you took it" to dealing with the current issues. |
Well how about the country acknowledge that fact first. Then we can move on to more concrete things.
| stui magpie wrote: | | This kind of demonstration to me is a double edged sword. It raises Aboriginal issues which is a good thing, but it (can) promote divisiveness which is a bad thing IMO. |
That's pure nonsense. Not a single person goes to those rallies and thinks "oh $£$%^%%$ white people, lets start a racial riot in the street". Get a grip on reality; the protest is about awareness.
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I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| We have never talked about it before. What colour are your eyes? Is that from it? Do not ask me any more questions please. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| sherrife wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | Invasion Omar?
20/20 hindsight is a beautiful thing, looking at history through modern eyes would make a lot of things "wrong", but at the time; in the society as they were; they were considered right.
Lots of societies over the world have been "colonised" or "invaded". Most of Europe would be a hotch potch of differing influences depending on which cultre was dominant for longest. |
Yea, yea, but not many societies still refuse to acknowledge that history. In Mexico for example the biggest Museum in the country is dedicated to the many nations and civilisations that existed prior to colonisation. That process is also described in all its violence both in the museum and in the 'official history' taught in schools.
Compare that to the disgusting situation here, where there is barely a mention of Indigenous Australians at school, let alone mainstream public institutions dedicated to achieving some sense of justice.
| stui magpie wrote: |
We need to get WAAAAAYYYY beyond "this was our land and you took it" to dealing with the current issues. |
Well how about the country acknowledge that fact first. Then we can move on to more concrete things.
| stui magpie wrote: | | This kind of demonstration to me is a double edged sword. It raises Aboriginal issues which is a good thing, but it (can) promote divisiveness which is a bad thing IMO. |
That's pure nonsense. Not a single person goes to those rallies and thinks "oh $£$%^%%$ white people, lets start a racial riot in the street". Get a grip on reality; the protest is about awareness. |
Mate, you get a grip. If you don't think a single person goes to those things who doesn't have extreme views..........................
And devisiveness isn't just about race riots in the street. If this makes it harder for some aboriginal people to move forward, and polarises more opinions against them, that's devisive.
As far as mention of Aboriginal culture in schools, I refer youto my previous criticisms of our school curriculum. 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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sherrife
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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| stui magpie wrote: |
Mate, you get a grip. If you don't think a single person goes to those things who doesn't have extreme views..........................
And devisiveness isn't just about race riots in the street. If this makes it harder for some aboriginal people to move forward, and polarises more opinions against them, that's devisive.
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LOL! Excuse me? How many rallies have you been to mate? I would wager that you wouldn't know a pro-Indigenous rally if it came up and protested outside your window.
Seriously mate, you have no idea about who goes to rallies, so don't try to be reasonable and pretend like you know. Socialists are about as extreme as it gets at most rallies (barring the rare anarchist, who are tactically confused IMO), and we don't advocate any sort of segregation... in fact we're about solidarity between the international working-class, so that's about as anti-divisive as it gets.
I think campaigning for awareness and acknowledgement of the initial invasion should not be divisive. If it is, it's because our institutions are still racist.
Glad we agree on the curriculum issue, but I wonder how you think that system is going to change without grassroots agitation.
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I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Grass roots agitation is good, in fact necessary.
But, IMO, the symbolisim behind running "Invasion Day" rallies on a day where we are supposed to celebrate as Tess put it, "we are one but we are many" will divide opinion. To call that racist is too simplistic.
And you may speak for your bretheren, but you can't read minds.
I hope you have a good day and that the message is delivered and no one (either for or against) gets carried away and does something stupid.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I speak only English right now, but I'd like to learn some other languages. Can you teach me a few phrases in for your bretheren but you can't read minds . |
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sherrife
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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Thanks 
Also, the word is comrades. Brethren is gender-specific.
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I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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EBB
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
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| sherrife wrote: | Thanks
Also, the word is comrades. Brethren is gender-specific. |
LoL - amen. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| sherrife wrote: | Thanks
Also, the word is comrades. Brethren is gender-specific. |
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Proud Pies 
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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| Post subject: Re: Invasion day protest on Saturday | |
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| sherrife wrote: |
Also, it is supported by the group I'm a part of; Socialist Alternative, but the Green Left Weekly is a newspaper published by Socialist Alliance, hence our lack of mention. Gotta love inter-party politics. |
ahhhhhhh i was so close
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
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Proud Pies
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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| stui magpie wrote: | | sherrife wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | Invasion Omar?
20/20 hindsight is a beautiful thing, looking at history through modern eyes would make a lot of things "wrong", but at the time; in the society as they were; they were considered right.
Lots of societies over the world have been "colonised" or "invaded". Most of Europe would be a hotch potch of differing influences depending on which cultre was dominant for longest. |
Yea, yea, but not many societies still refuse to acknowledge that history. In Mexico for example the biggest Museum in the country is dedicated to the many nations and civilisations that existed prior to colonisation. That process is also described in all its violence both in the museum and in the 'official history' taught in schools.
Compare that to the disgusting situation here, where there is barely a mention of Indigenous Australians at school, let alone mainstream public institutions dedicated to achieving some sense of justice.
| stui magpie wrote: |
We need to get WAAAAAYYYY beyond "this was our land and you took it" to dealing with the current issues. |
Well how about the country acknowledge that fact first. Then we can move on to more concrete things.
| stui magpie wrote: | | This kind of demonstration to me is a double edged sword. It raises Aboriginal issues which is a good thing, but it (can) promote divisiveness which is a bad thing IMO. |
That's pure nonsense. Not a single person goes to those rallies and thinks "oh $£$%^%%$ white people, lets start a racial riot in the street". Get a grip on reality; the protest is about awareness. |
Mate, you get a grip. If you don't think a single person goes to those things who doesn't have extreme views..........................
And devisiveness isn't just about race riots in the street. If this makes it harder for some aboriginal people to move forward, and polarises more opinions against them, that's devisive.
As far as mention of Aboriginal culture in schools, I refer youto my previous criticisms of our school curriculum. |
yes, the extremists......most of them are socialist alliance
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
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thesleepysupporter
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Cheltenham
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sherrife, by naming it invasion day it is alienating a massive percentage of the population. and mate it's not reverse racism, it's just plain racism.
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"The problem with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass"
- Dean Martin |
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Proud Pies
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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| Post subject: Re: Invasion day protest on Saturday | |
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| sherrife wrote: | | Quote: | An Invasion Day protest to be held on January 26 will demand justice for Mulrunji and an end to Aboriginal deaths in custody. It will be the first time in many years that such a demonstration has taken place in Melbourne on Invasion Day.
Commenting on the campaign to force the Queensland and federal governments to bring to trial those responsible for Mulrunji’s death, Jason Tamiru of the Yorta Yorta Aboriginal community told Green Left Weekly: “I would like to see Aboriginal Victoria come to Melbourne and rally against this continued oppression and discrimination, and denounce it clearly. What’s happening today has happened all my life, it’s just that this time it made the news. Aboriginal Australia has lost complete confidence in this system … [but] I see Aboriginal Australia coming together from what has happened.”
The rally is supported by community radio 3CR, Koori radio 3KND, Australians for Native Title and Reconciliation, the Black GST, Swinburne Student Association, the Socialist Alliance, Reconciliation Victoria, Union Solidarity and Australia Asia Worker Links. It will convene outside the State Library at 11am before marching to the Share the Spirit Festival at the Treasury Gardens. |
http://www.greenleft.org.au/2007/695/36127
Come along... I'll be there
Also, it is supported by the group I'm a part of; Socialist Alternative, but the Green Left Weekly is a newspaper published by Socialist Alliance, hence our lack of mention. Gotta love inter-party politics. |
and yet, you live here.
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond
Last edited by Proud Pies on Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:45 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Proud Pies
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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yes, i know this group. Every week i see them on the corner of bourke street with their latest petition (since the election it's been about Gay Marriage). One day they will actually run out of things to petition about. Where do these petitions go I wonder. Do they ever send them on?
I know many of these 'activists' and have worked with some of them (not the ones that don't work or at Uni) and have been members of the same Union as them on decision making committee's. Some of them are actually quite scary in their extremism.
one i know particularly well, just wanted to use violence to put his point across. (Bit like those G20 thugs).
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
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sherrife
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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Hold on hold on. I go to sleep and look what happens. LOL
First of all Tess, Japan has apologised to the world for WWII (bar China, and look at the relations between those two nations! totally proves my point). We have not apologised to the Indigenous people for 200 hears of near genocide. If I broke your leg one day on purpose whilst in a drunken rage, and then went and asked you to coffee to discuss your situation 6 months later, would you want me to acknowledge in some way that I'm sorry before we actually talked?
Second of all Tess, I actually think producing left-wing material and fighting for the equal rights of all is more important than working some bullsh!t job. Not sure why you think working for a boss for crappy wages (like the overwhelming majority of socialists do, just like everyone else) is somehow intrinsically honourable.
PP, violence is not acceptable, and I do have my disagreements with the style that some members use to get their point across. So I'm not going to defend that. But I would say this. Whilst we can get overly passionate about our cause, and that enthusiasm can seem violent, it's nothing like what the G20 does, so lets get a bit of perspective.
Our ideas don't kill millions each year, theirs do. It might be extreme to advocate a revolution, but not everyone is as happy with the system as you are here in Oz. Sorry, but not really.
RE the title of the rally, what a cop out for anyone here to be offended. How about be offended that our government still refuses to invest any significant amounts money into the third world conditions of rural Australia? Into urban ghettos in Sydney? I can't really sympathise that you're offended by some title, when there are thousands of Indigenous Australians with no access to doctors, nurses, decent schools, etc. The fact is our country is based on colonisation; murder, theft and rape. Acknowledge it. Own the deflected shame. Then use that shame to do something productive. You can't ignore it, THAT is offensive.
PP, RE the fact that "I live here", the rally is not about calling for non-Indigenous Australians to get the hell out, it is about awareness for the injustices that have persisted since colonisation.
Phew, I've gotta get ready! Looking forward to your responses. I've tried not to be aggressive or anything like that, so tell me how I went 
_________________
I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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