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member34258
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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| David wrote: | | sherrife wrote: | | It always bothers me that someone can be such a hardcore animal activist or environmentalist when there are BLOODY PEOPLE on this planet suffering similar and worse fates. |
Totally agree. This is one of the things that frustrates me so much about organizations like PETA - I don't have any problem with organizations that fight to stop animal cruelty, but you get the sense that if PETA had the choice between saving 100 humans and 100 seals, they'd choose the seals. It's just insane.
I think the only thing I'd risk my life for is someone I love very much, although that is not to say that I wouldn't necessarily do it for a stranger on the spur of the moment - it's hard to know until you've been in such a situation. |
I've met 100 humans I would not go out of my way to save.
You need to get out more David. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I dunno Francis, you can meet them right here.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| David wrote: | | sherrife wrote: | | It always bothers me that someone can be such a hardcore animal activist or environmentalist when there are BLOODY PEOPLE on this planet suffering similar and worse fates. |
Totally agree. This is one of the things that frustrates me so much about organizations like PETA - I don't have any problem with organizations that fight to stop animal cruelty, but you get the sense that if PETA had the choice between saving 100 humans and 100 seals, they'd choose the seals. It's just insane.
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Why is it insane? Because you disagree and it isn't the choice you would make?? |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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No, because it's insane.
I'm sorry, but I see a human life as being far more important than that of an animal - simply because, being humans, we have to look after our species first and foremost. Right?
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| David wrote: | | No, because it's insane. |
Nope
I don't undertstand your post at all - in fact it is absolute bollocks
The human race and its conviction that it is above all other life forms is insane - can the planet survive without plants and vegetation, without animals, without the elements??????
Why do we need to choose ( by the way if forced I'm going the seals option) perhaps if the human race learnt the meaning of CO-EXIST the world would be a better place - no christian over muslim, jew over hindu, black over white, man over animal etc etc etc
Animal activists are not solely about stopping cruelty to animals - it is about preserving life, habitat and species |
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sherrife 
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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Yea but we're not talking abstract theoretical examples, what we're talking about is the f%$king millions of sentient beings that die around the world due to malnutrition, no healthcare, and whatever else.
What makes the death of millions of NON-sentient beings more important? If we've being philosophically generous they might be considered of equal importance, but I don't see many animal rights activists at anti-war rallies, though I do see socialists at every single pro-environment rally.
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I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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In response to Morrigu:
It's not that human beings are "above" other animals (although I suppose we are superior in many ways... but that's not the point).
My point is, we look after our own species. We have to.
Yeah, we need plants, vegetation and animals. We also need the planet to survive. It is in the human race's best interests.
If you have ever eaten meat, killed a fly or mosquito, or hell, killed a virus, your post is hypocritical. You equate equality of races and religions with equality of animals. Do you honestly believe that animals and humans should be given equal rights?
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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member34258
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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| David wrote: | | simply because, being humans, we have to look after our species first and foremost. Right? |
I would have thought that we, as humans, had the responsibility to nurture and protect all species on the planet.
Considering we are the biggest threat to the planets long term survival maybe our place on it is not so precious. |
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sherrife
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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Dave, whilst I agree with some of your sentiment and can't be bothered discussing philosophy of animal rights atm....
You have the most conservative, right-wing ways of thinking some times.
_________________
I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I just see it as common sense. Is there really any point in 'saving the planet' if it doesn't benefit the human race? Why aren't we trying to stop global warming on Mars? (ok, a ridiculous hypothetical, but you get my point).
I agree that this is probably a discussion for another time though.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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I'm with you David, I think.
As the dominant species on the planet, Humans have a responsibility to conserve (not necessarily preserve) the various fauna and flora of the planet. Not just for it's own sake but for the overall environmental impacts. Pockest of humanity could survive in theory using technology if the envirnment was wiped out, but that's not the way I'd prefer to see it happen.
The people risking their life in the video, weren't just risking their life for one animal. They were risking their life for an ideal, a symbol. If they died saving one whale and the resultant publicity led to a total enforcable ban on whaling, they would be satisfied. martyred even.
Being prepared to lay down your life for an ideal isn't insane, it just takes a level of concern that I just don't have. As I said earlier, it's borderline zealotry.
A human who would chose to save the life of a single anonymous animal over a single anonymous human, each purely for it's own sake, has serious issues IMO.
The woman a couple of years ago who was more concerned with stripping protective bands of a tree so Possums could climb it than for the welfare of her daughter who had fallen from the same tree and was quite injured, is insane.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Dale61
You can't have manslaughter without laughter.
Joined: 17 Apr 2002
Location: /home/room/chair
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| David wrote: | | simply because, being humans, we have to look after our species first and foremost. Right? |
And we look after our own species by making guns readily available. Way to look after us!
Remember, it's not the guns that kill people, it's psycho fuckwits with guns that kill people.
The human race: The most intelligent race on the planet, but also the most seriously £$%$ed up!
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Whale
Oil
Beef
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| sherrife wrote: | | If we've being philosophically generous they might be considered of equal importance, but I don't see many animal rights activists at anti-war rallies, though I do see socialists at every single pro-environment rally. |
Really I'm curious how do you know not many animal rights activists attend anti-war rallies - no tee shirts proclaiming the fact?, no buckets of red paint? |
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sherrife
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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| Morrigu wrote: | | sherrife wrote: | | If we've being philosophically generous they might be considered of equal importance, but I don't see many animal rights activists at anti-war rallies, though I do see socialists at every single pro-environment rally. |
Really I'm curious how do you know not many animal rights activists attend anti-war rallies - no tee shirts proclaiming the fact?, no buckets of red paint? |
Well often because there are less than 400 people there, almost all of whom are related to student unions and/or one of the revolutionary left-wing groups.
Actually let me rephrase that; Animal rights organisations don't bother to show up at anti-war rallies. That's inarguable, and doesn't alienate those environmental activists that do both.
_________________
I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I've been waiting for you. Hurrah! Are we still talking about [quote]
Really he or she'm curious how do you know not many animal rights activists attend anti-war rallies - no tee shirts proclaiming the fact? |
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