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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Post subject: The stolen generation - Betrayed by a black myth |  |
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I'm going to quote from an article in todays Herald Sun by Andrew Bolt. He his a long time opponent of The Stolen Generation.
I have read his work and whether you agree or not, he does his research. For those who claim he is just a right wing tool, remember he worked for Labor on 3 of Bob Hawkes electoral campaigns.
There is no denying that Aboriginal children were removed from their homes. In the main, it was done for the benefit of the child. In some cases, those reasons (with the benefit of hindsight) may be viewed as racist, but he argues that very, very few legitimate cases of that have been found to be true.
The premise of the argument IMO, is that the "stolen generation" acts as an impediment to child protection workers removing aboriginal children from situations where they are at risk. Remember the kid found in the suitcase in the lake recently?
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22870809-25717,00.html
I'm selectively quoting parts, please read the whole article before responding vitriolic ally
| Quote: | TOO many Aboriginal children have been sacrificed to the myth of the ''stolen generation'' and the truth must be told before more die.
If Prime Minister Kevin Rudd can't find real members of the "stolen generations" to say sorry to, no problem.
The media will just invent some for him. Or, in the case of Prof Lowitja O'Donoghue, reinvent.
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| Quote: | On the other hand, O'Donoghue said she was indeed stolen as a child from her family.
Only when I confronted her six years ago did she at last admit she had not been stolen, but abandoned.
Her white father had dumped first his eldest two children, Eileen and Geoff, at a missionary-run home for abandoned and sick Aboriginal children in Quorn, and come back years later with three more, including Lowitja, who never saw him again.
"He wanted to move on," O'Donoghue conceded. "He didn't want to be straddled (sic) with five kids . . . I haven't forgiven him."
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| Quote: | You may think I make too much of this. But O'Donoghue's case is symbolic because it is astonishingly common, and on these pages I've outlined perhaps 30 others like it.
In case you missed them, here are a few -- all of people once claimed by Prof Robert Manne, the leading "stolen generations" propagandist, to have been stolen under a racist policy to "help keep White Australia pure
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| Quote: | | So perhaps you understand why Manne, despite years of taxpayer-funded research, cannot name even 10 of the 100,000 children we're told were stolen for racist reasons, not welfare. |
| Quote: | No, it's that the "stolen generations" myth is killing black children right now. And those who keep alive this myth have blood on their hands.
I won't repeat all the examples I've given here before of children left in grave, even fatal, danger by officials who were too spooked by the "stolen generations" to save them.
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| Quote: | Here is the ghastly irony. I can name more dead children, betrayed by the "stolen generations" myth, than Manne can name children truly stolen.
Surely too many children have been sacrificed to these lies. Let's try truth instead, and hope we can save the rest.
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I'm quite sure this will be reasonably unpopular but I tend to agree that if fear of something that facts say didn't happen, causes children to be left in a dangerous situation, that is a terrible thing.
For those who's initial reaction is to respond with vitriol; insults and call me racist, I give you a challenge. Name me someone you know who was stolen for racists reasons. I'll happily email their contact details to Andrew Bolt to prove him wrong.
I'm starting to think the whole "stolen generation" is similar to the end of the movie "the Man who shot Liberty Valance."
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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member34258
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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Andrew Bolt!
How low must you stoop stui? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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C'mon member, you can do better than that. I posted it because I found it an interesting and provocative article.
your thoughts?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Proud Pies 
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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it's Andrew Bolt........nuff said!
I turn off 3AW when he comes on
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Great flow of ideas happening in this thread so far.
Rather than debate whether the stolen generation actually happened or not (I don't know... it's commonly accepted, and yet Bolt makes a convincing case), I am far more interested in the reasons why people choose to believe it, or otherwise - and even more importantly, what implications this should have on future actions and solutions to problems.
This is a very good article by Bolt because he considers these factors in the article, rather than just rattling off a few examples that prove he's right that the stolen generation was a myth. He instead makes the extremely valid point, albeit in his usual bombastic and somewhat emotive style, that historical revisionism can have terrible consequences.
Like the guy or not, he's got a point. But I doubt many people will pay much attention, especially if they've already switched off their minds a long time ago.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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sherrife 
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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Bolt is a neo-con hack that was rejected from a suitable home for such hacks (eg. Time magazine) and resorted to printing his tripe in the HS.
You are a $£$%^%%$ disgrace when you talk about these issues Dave... I'm glad we're not in person having lunch when these things come up!
The reason we're not responding to the article is its EXTREME right-wing'edness. It's a horrible, disgusting premise. It's like arguing with a holocaust denier.
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I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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Jason 
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Location: Mackay
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I don't understand where you people are coming from in attacking the article (and in fact any person who mentions Andrew Bolt might have a point every now and then).
Have you all read the article or are you just imagining the picture of that smug bastard Bolt's face found above his columns?  I hated him once, everything he said was at odds with how I felt on issues and everything he said was said in such an arseholic way. But eventually I realised that fairly regularly, Bolt gets it right.
Here he asserts that the "stolen generation" doesn't exist. Does he do this just to prove a point to all those lefties? Does he do it because he's racist? No; he's making this statement because he realises that due to a factually unproven event in Australia's past; there are kids dying because of it now.
I still recall an article by a woman claiming to have been taken from her family by white people many years ago. But she says she was "saved" not "stolen". |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| sherrife wrote: | | You are a $£$%^%%$ disgrace when you talk about these issues Dave... I'm glad we're not in person having lunch when these things come up! |
What can I say to that? Even if everything I say is absolute shit, at least it gives a chance for debate on certain issues.
I have never seen constructive argument as anything but a good thing, except in cases where the points being argued on one side are utterly stupid. I find it hurtful and unfair that you clearly see everything I have written as belonging to that latter category.
But, whatever the case, perhaps it would be a good lunch topic, as I am not, and never will be, afraid of being told I am wrong, and accepting it if it is the case. As I said above, constructive argument is crucial to understanding anything.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Pi
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA
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The problem for some people is that if the messenger isn’t a pure socialist then any evidence they present is automatically dismissed with a tirade of the usual cliché’s about them apparently being a racist neo…blah, (insert obligatory Marxist platitude) . If you actually check some of Bolts facts he has a few valid points worthy of debate regardless of the turgid style in which he chooses to write.
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Pi = Infinite = Collingwood = Always
Floreat Pica |
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member34258
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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Anything that comes from Bolt's mind is dismiss-able. Talk about spin king!
On your theory stui, Brendan Nelson is more believable than he otherwise would be because he was once a Labor Party member. |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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Joel 
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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| sherrife wrote: | | You are a $£$%^%%$ disgrace when you talk about these issues Dave... I'm glad we're not in person having lunch when these things come up! |
Give it a break Sherrife. Dave wants to hear people's opinions - he wants to hear the discussion. You're so quick to shoot people down - how about you just respond to the questions rather than attacking the poster? |
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joffa corfe
PREMIERS 2010
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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| Post subject: Re: The stolen generation - Betrayed by a black myth | |
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| stui magpie wrote: | I'm going to quote from an article in todays Herald Sun by Andrew Bolt. He his a long time opponent of The Stolen Generation.
I have read his work and whether you agree or not, he does his research. For those who claim he is just a right wing tool, remember he worked for Labor on 3 of Bob Hawkes electoral campaigns.
There is no denying that Aboriginal children were removed from their homes. In the main, it was done for the benefit of the child. In some cases, those reasons (with the benefit of hindsight) may be viewed as racist, but he argues that very, very few legitimate cases of that have been found to be true.
The premise of the argument IMO, is that the "stolen generation" acts as an impediment to child protection workers removing aboriginal children from situations where they are at risk. Remember the kid found in the suitcase in the lake recently?
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22870809-25717,00.html
I'm selectively quoting parts, please read the whole article before responding vitriolic ally
| Quote: | TOO many Aboriginal children have been sacrificed to the myth of the ''stolen generation'' and the truth must be told before more die.
If Prime Minister Kevin Rudd can't find real members of the "stolen generations" to say sorry to, no problem.
The media will just invent some for him. Or, in the case of Prof Lowitja O'Donoghue, reinvent.
|
| Quote: | On the other hand, O'Donoghue said she was indeed stolen as a child from her family.
Only when I confronted her six years ago did she at last admit she had not been stolen, but abandoned.
Her white father had dumped first his eldest two children, Eileen and Geoff, at a missionary-run home for abandoned and sick Aboriginal children in Quorn, and come back years later with three more, including Lowitja, who never saw him again.
"He wanted to move on," O'Donoghue conceded. "He didn't want to be straddled (sic) with five kids . . . I haven't forgiven him."
|
| Quote: | You may think I make too much of this. But O'Donoghue's case is symbolic because it is astonishingly common, and on these pages I've outlined perhaps 30 others like it.
In case you missed them, here are a few -- all of people once claimed by Prof Robert Manne, the leading "stolen generations" propagandist, to have been stolen under a racist policy to "help keep White Australia pure
|
| Quote: | | So perhaps you understand why Manne, despite years of taxpayer-funded research, cannot name even 10 of the 100,000 children we're told were stolen for racist reasons, not welfare. |
| Quote: | No, it's that the "stolen generations" myth is killing black children right now. And those who keep alive this myth have blood on their hands.
I won't repeat all the examples I've given here before of children left in grave, even fatal, danger by officials who were too spooked by the "stolen generations" to save them.
|
| Quote: | Here is the ghastly irony. I can name more dead children, betrayed by the "stolen generations" myth, than Manne can name children truly stolen.
Surely too many children have been sacrificed to these lies. Let's try truth instead, and hope we can save the rest.
|
I'm quite sure this will be reasonably unpopular but I tend to agree that if fear of something that facts say didn't happen, causes children to be left in a dangerous situation, that is a terrible thing.
For those who's initial reaction is to respond with vitriol; insults and call me racist, I give you a challenge. Name me someone you know who was stolen for racists reasons. I'll happily email their contact details to Andrew Bolt to prove him wrong.
I'm starting to think the whole "stolen generation" is similar to the end of the movie "the Man who shot Liberty Valance." |
Yep Stui because of my wide links within the Aboriginal community in Victoria i know of such a person, An Elder, Who was removed from his home as a child for the sole purpose of ' He'll be a better person if raised by a white family '
It happened mate and it happened in huge numbers, I challenge anyone on here to look this Elder in the eye and not have a tear as he goes on to explain how scared he was with the tragic consequences it played in his future life.
Stui we have a huge child welfare issue in this country with many different races of people, Proper and sensible welfare is many times not delivered with deadly consequences, Child welfare and associated issues will be the next step in my life to be involved in, I have a deep burning passion with childrens welfare.
It's not fair to pinpoint Aboriginal child abuse and then say this was the only reason why Aboriginal children were removed from homes and family...The reasons were far more sinister Stui 
_________________
Football is Greatness
http://youtu.be/tJwoKbPOsQE |
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joffa corfe
PREMIERS 2010
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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[quote="David"] | sherrife wrote: | | You are a $£$%^%%$ disgrace when you talk about these issues Dave... I'm glad we're not in person having lunch when these things come up! |
everything I say is absolute shit,
[quote]
Well said mate and i conclusively agree
_________________
Football is Greatness
http://youtu.be/tJwoKbPOsQE |
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joffa corfe
PREMIERS 2010
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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| sherrife wrote: | Bolt is a neo-con hack that was rejected from a suitable home for such hacks (eg. Time magazine) and resorted to printing his tripe in the HS.
You are a $£$%^%%$ disgrace when you talk about these issues Dave... I'm glad we're not in person having lunch when these things come up!
The reason we're not responding to the article is its EXTREME right-wing'edness. It's a horrible, disgusting premise. It's like arguing with a holocaust denier. |
Agree!
_________________
Football is Greatness
http://youtu.be/tJwoKbPOsQE |
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