Builders still fear unions

[stui magpie]

No it's not.

[Joel]

[Magpie Jack]

Unions exist to protect the vulnerable who are unable to protect themselves.

Without protection the vulnerable will be expoloited.

There is nothing evil in the existence of Unions.

They are there to help people

[member34258]

[nomadjack]

[Culprit]

Small business operators think they have a right to cheap Labour. You pay peanuts you get monkeys. Having had a small business for 5 years I got someone who worked for me cheap and they ripped me off. After being burnt I hired someone and paid them more than any award and looked after them and in turn they looked after me. You need a balance. Unions have nothing to do with small business in my experience. Magpie Jack is on the money as well.

I am over business operators who cannot manage their books, employ people, don't pay their taxes, super etc then fold and leave their staff out in the cold with millions over in redundancy payments which are owed. The directors walk drive away in there $100000 BMW’s and the staff are left with nothing. At the moment Unions are fighting for these workers without the unions these workers would have no where to turn. The current Government doesn’t care unless the business is run by Howard’s brother.

You love taking all the benefits that have been fought for you in the past. But you still sit there and slag off unions. You throw in the corruption of unions; let’s throw in the corruption of business. Whatever the BLF did is nothing compared to say what HIH did and Enron on a bigger scale. It’s a two way street. You have rights and without unions they will be eroded. Work Choices is all about you selling away your rights. It’s like signing your soul to the devil.

I have been a boss, manage, owner and just an employee. Worked where I needed to be in a union and work now where I am on contract. Under a contract I have no rights. When I was a union worker I had rights.


We all talk expierence, mine would out do all of yours.

[stui magpie]

Very good points raised by a number of people. I can echo Nomadjacks experience to a degree. My father was a stauch union/labor man all his life as he did a lot of work for farmers as a labourer/hay carter etc and was continually ripped off. Farmers are doing it tough these days but 30 years ago they were the rural aristocracy and it was hard to cope when you have no money being told by the farmer that they can't afford to pay you for 2 weeks of back breaking work while they're driving around in the latest model mercedes.

Like was alluded to earlier, Balance is the necessary thing.

There are plenty of examples of unions fighting the good fight to win real change and of unscrupulous (or incompetent) business people ripping people off.

Unfortunately over more recent times, there are probably just as many examples of unions attacking good businesses, making unrealistic demands and behaving in an unscrupulous totally self serving manner in complete disregard to why they are supposed to exist.

Very good points have been raised about the good that ther union movement has achieved over the years. My opinion is that there are now too many people within the union movement who have lost sight of those alturistic ideals and are in the game for purely selfish reasons. Those are the people we all need to be scared of if a Labor govenment removes too many of the checks and balances that have been put in place.

[Joel]

Valid points from all.

My anti-union sentiment probably comes from a family experience when unions tried to muscle in on the business saying that a sub contractor was unfairly let go (I won't go into detail, but it was a long time ago). It was absolute crap, and they tried to intimidate to reach their ends. It didn't work.

I understand why unions need to be there, don't get me wrong, it's just that alot of the union monkeys know sweet FA about what it takes to run the business, and the costs involved.

[Culprit]

The days of Union thuggery are over; with les than 6% of today’s workers are actually union members, unions have become basically irrelevant. Our wages and conditions are being eroded each year all in the conquest to make us compete globally. Who is pushing this? Multi national companies whose directors etc are paid in US dollars at the same time they are trying to get there work force to be paid in Yuan dollars.

What we all agree on is you need a balance. At the moment from where I see it there is no balance. The companies have a gun to our heads and we have no choice sign or no job.

[stui magpie]

I don't agree that there is no balance at the moment culpriut, but the scenario you pain about competition in the global market is reasonably accurate for some companis and industries but doesn't apply in the Building industry. If you're building an office tower or re-fitting a shopping centre, you can't have that done in China.

Part of the reason some unions are resorting to increased bullying is their increased irrelevance. Some will use any tactics they can, even borderline illegal, to get and hang on to members.

And that's not assumption, it's fact.

[Culprit]

Stui they can't walk onto building sites any more. You don't need a union ticket to work on a building site no more. They cannot bully because of the commision that is set in place. You are right you cannot have it done in China but you can have it done by Chinese workers on a 457 Visa.

[stui magpie]

A kid I know started as an apprentice only a few months ago.

First day on the job he was fronted by the local shop steward and told he had to join the union. Wasn't presented to him as a choice, he was told to sign.

The only question he was game to ask was how much it would cost.

the response was not to worry about that, the company pays the union fees.

I know what's not supposed to happen any more, I also know what does happen.

[Culprit]

I am all for having a choice to join or not join. In saying that if the Union brokers a deal and you are a non Union member then you miss out and you are left to do your own negotiations, if you get a better deal then the Union misses out. That way we have a fair system. Personally if I could join a union where I currently work I would join. Protection in numbers is better than standing alone. You only need to look at companies trying to get out of paying their workers entitlements. If these workers did not belong to a union they would have been screwed. Ala the latest in the motoring industry which mind you a court has ordered them back to work even though the South African company has refused to put anything in writing guaranteeing all workers entitlements. We are talking people who have worked for this firm for 20 + years virtually told to just piss off even though they are owed in most cases $50000 dollars or more and who are 50 years or older and in most cases won’t get another job due to their age. Unscrupulous union people are out numbered by unscrupulous businesses.