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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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I know and what do we do about China's human rights violations? Oh that's right, here you go, you guys can hostthe Olympic Games.  |
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spoljar 
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Location: Lynbrook
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| Culprit wrote: | | I know and what do we do about China's human rights violations? Oh that's right, here you go, you guys can hostthe Olympic Games. |
Unfortunately, Tiananmen square was a time when something could have been done. Regrettably the whole world looked the other way. There were no protests thats for sure and I guess they all knew what China was becoming.
Knowing from my parents experiences as they came from former communist countries themselves, you will find that only a minority are actually communists. Therefore, the momentum for change in China needed to be heard all around the world as is what happened in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union.
Bottom line is that Governments, Protesters etc etc are all very selective about who will and wont be saved, who is greedy or not and who is polluting or not. Just the way Humans are. |
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sherrife 
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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Dave, Dave, Dave...
| Quote: | | "In a Communist state..." |
You're completely wrong. Communist states would (if they were actually Communist) be completely democratic, they would definitely have competing people with competing ideas that the rest of us could weigh up... Actually they would have much MORE ideas that we could choose between, because person X wouldn't need millions of dollars to have their voice heard. You're right, no you wouldn't be able to express anti-government statements, because there would be no government.
Regarding your ignorance on this complex ideology, I think you should actually read the Communist Manifesto or some primary source. Andrew Bolt doesn't know what Communism is, nor do many (if any) of the people you have probably listened to discussing the issue. I'm not pretending i do btw, but don't just accept common-knowledge generalisations so easily.
| Quote: | | (I paraphrase here) "...Civil rights victories and the withdrawal from Vietnam was a result of coincidental events..." |
You are kidding yourself if you don't think the civil rights movements of the 60's and 70's changed the world forever. Absolutely kidding yourself. I'm not even going to have that discussion with you. READ instead of having opinions on things you don't really know much about.
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I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Mate, therein lies the problem. The pure ideal of communism does not work in practice. So called communist states were not in reality, communist. They were just another variation on a dictatorship dressed up and pretending to be something they weren't.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| sherrife wrote: | Dave, Dave, Dave...
| Quote: | | "In a Communist state..." |
You're completely wrong. Communist states would (if they were actually Communist) be completely democratic, they would definitely have competing people with competing ideas that the rest of us could weigh up... Actually they would have much MORE ideas that we could choose between, because person X wouldn't need millions of dollars to have their voice heard. You're right, no you wouldn't be able to express anti-government statements, because there would be no government.
Regarding your ignorance on this complex ideology, I think you should actually read the Communist Manifesto or some primary source. Andrew Bolt doesn't know what Communism is, nor do many (if any) of the people you have probably listened to discussing the issue. I'm not pretending i do btw, but don't just accept common-knowledge generalisations so easily. |
I could try responding to this, but it misses the point completely... I was responding to member32458's post in which he was referring to a communist regime in the context of a Stalinist/Totalitarian regime. So, it was not a broad comment on the theory or application of communism.
But, if you could give me an example of one communist regime that hasn't turned into a totalitarian regime, that would be great. Sure, these states may not be following the ideals of communism, but then you begin to wonder if following such ideals are even practically applicable.
| sherrife wrote: | | Quote: | | (I paraphrase here) "...Civil rights victories and the withdrawal from Vietnam was a result of coincidental events..." |
You are kidding yourself if you don't think the civil rights movements of the 60's and 70's changed the world forever. Absolutely kidding yourself. I'm not even going to have that discussion with you. READ instead of having opinions on things you don't really know much about. |
Did you read my whole post? I conceded that both events did have a lot to do with the protest movements of the time. I only stated that, at least in the case of Australia, the protests did not in their own right lead to Whitlam's election and our subsequent withdrawal of troops from Vietnam.
People voted for Whitlam because it was "time" and McMahon had big ears, and cos Vietnam was a failure. Not because they saw 10000 people on the streets on their TVs at dinner time.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Alec. J. Hidell
Joined: 12 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Mate, therein lies the problem. The pure ideal of communism does not work in practice. So called communist states were not in reality, communist. They were just another variation on a dictatorship dressed up and pretending to be something they weren't. |
Chile
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The one man in the world, who never believes he is mad, is the madman. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Does "it" still refer to [quote]
After reading some of those posts did he or she? I will mention that to my botmaster, Frank Stone. |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| Frank Stone wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | Mate, therein lies the problem. The pure ideal of communism does not work in practice. So called communist states were not in reality, communist. They were just another variation on a dictatorship dressed up and pretending to be something they weren't. |
Chile |
State Socialist not Communist. By definition their can be no such thing as a 'Communist State'. According to Marx and Engels a communist form of social organisation is only present once the state withers away. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Is that from it? The ALICE chat robot can follow many things, like our discussion about [quoteFrank Stone][quotestui magpie]Mate therein lies the problem. Try being more or less specific. |
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EBB
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
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| sherrife wrote: | Dave, Dave, Dave...
| Quote: | | "In a Communist state..." |
You're completely wrong. Communist states would (if they were actually Communist) be completely democratic, they would definitely have competing people with competing ideas that the rest of us could weigh up... Actually they would have much MORE ideas that we could choose between, because person X wouldn't need millions of dollars to have their voice heard. You're right, no you wouldn't be able to express anti-government statements, because there would be no government. |
Sherrife, relax man, we are already living in a communist country, in the guise of capitalism.
-we all have debt
-job/s (even the unemployed work hard doing nothing)
-low wages (higher wage earner's refer to tax bracket)
-mortgage (even so-called wealthy folk have a mortgage, granted the house is bigger)
-a right to vote
-food on the table
-clothing
-criminal laws to obey
-road laws
-council laws
..etc etc..
"war is peace"
"enslavement is freedom"
"ignorance is power"
-1984
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understanding stuff, with endeavour to overstand.. |
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