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Dark Lord 
He's back...
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
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| Frank Stone wrote: | | Dark Lord wrote: | | We have a right to peaceful protest. But the groups who organize these riots, sorry, protests, have no peaceful intentions. |
What groups?
Who is entitled to protest and who is not?
Is Democracy for all of us or just those that fit a pre-determined criteria? |
Groups such as the Socialist Alliance. Groups such as Resistance. Groups such as Stop Bush. Shall I go on?
Everyone is entitled to lawful and peaceful protest.
Democracy is for all, but there are laws that govern this society that we all must abide. I for one, am sick of taxpayer's money being handed out to miscreants who cry "police brutality" when the police are forced to control them when they break the law and run amok.
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"There's an old saying in Tennessee, I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee, that says, fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again." - Oscar Wilde |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| Does that mean we should not have had a French resistance in WWII? |
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EBB
Joined: 26 Apr 2007
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Woomera detention centre is vacant. Why don't they hold APEC-2007 there?
It could solve the "security" issues / "terroist" threats and "problem" protesters we keep hearing about in the media.
..but NO! Let's shut down a city and provoke "all kinds". 
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understanding stuff, with endeavour to overstand.. |
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Dark Lord
He's back...
Joined: 16 Sep 2002
Location: Parts Unknown
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| Culprit wrote: | | Does that mean we should not have had a French resistance in WWII? |
I must have missed the day that Australia was annexed by a foreign power.
_________________
"There's an old saying in Tennessee, I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee, that says, fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again." - Oscar Wilde |
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Alec. J. Hidell
Joined: 12 May 2007
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| Dark Lord wrote: | | Frank Stone wrote: | | Dark Lord wrote: | | We have a right to peaceful protest. But the groups who organize these riots, sorry, protests, have no peaceful intentions. |
What groups?
Who is entitled to protest and who is not?
Is Democracy for all of us or just those that fit a pre-determined criteria? |
Groups such as the Socialist Alliance. Groups such as Resistance. Groups such as Stop Bush. Shall I go on?
Everyone is entitled to lawful and peaceful protest.
Democracy is for all, but there are laws that govern this society that we all must abide. I for one, am sick of taxpayer's money being handed out to miscreants who cry "police brutality" when the police are forced to control them when they break the law and run amok. |
So democracy really is only for those who fit some pre-determined criteria?
If by chance one happens to belong to one of the groups you list, then by association, they get less than the rest of us.
The Police do have a history of "hit first ask questions later" mentality and the cost of payouts from the taxpayer to wrongfully assaulted protesters is staggering.
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The one man in the world, who never believes he is mad, is the madman. |
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sherrife 
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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| David wrote: | | sherrife wrote: | | violence against objects is a perfectly valid way to make a point. |
And here I was thinking that was vandalism. |
Yep. Let me reiterate: political vandalism is fine.
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I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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That's the anarchist coming out in you. I and most others would disagree.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| sherrife wrote: | | David wrote: | | sherrife wrote: | | violence against objects is a perfectly valid way to make a point. |
And here I was thinking that was vandalism. |
Yep. Let me reiterate: political vandalism is fine. |
I could debate this point, but looking at it in a more practical manner: where then do you draw the line? If people should be allowed to smash bank windows during a protest, does that mean any dero out there can go and vandalise a bank if he feels like it and then claim it was for a political purpose? Or what about the bank manager's house?
Anyway, I've always thought resorting to violence is a weak option. What purpose does it serve? Are people really going to listen because a bank or shop was vandalised? I would have thought the majority would simply shake their heads, while the people you oppose use such acts as a way to condemn all the protesters.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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member34258
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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Like it or not, protesting is part of a vigorous democracy.
Sure there are times when things overstep the line. And there are people, on both sides of the protest, who want nothing more to have that line broken for their own selfish purposes.
But without the right to protest, without the right to make your voice known, minority or majority voice, then wouldn't we just be living in a communist state? |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Not necessarily. Ability to protest isn't the same as freedom of speech.
In a communist state, you wouldn't have parties with ideological differences competing for power, you wouldn't have the ability to vote for those parties, and you wouldn't be allowed to express anti-government opinion in newspapers or other publications.
That's not to say that I oppose the right to protest - I understand that it is a fundamental element of democracy. However, I have always kind of seen protests as kind of pointless - do they actually achieve anything in the long run?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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member34258
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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You are from the wrong era David.
The Vietnam moratorium protests in the early 70's lead to a change of government and a withdrawal of Australia from a war that was not ours.
I'm sure you could not argue that the protests in the USA for equal rights had no effect.
And even the suffragettes had to protest to get the right to vote.
As I said, an important part of a vigorous democracy. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Yes, but was this a direct result of the protests, or simply coincidental events?
| member34258 wrote: | | The Vietnam moratorium protests in the early 70's lead to a change of government and a withdrawal of Australia from a war that was not ours. |
Clearly it wasn't the protests themselves that led to Whitlam's election win.
However, I will concede that the protests in America (combined with several other factors) did play a part in America losing the Vietnam War, and also, I will concede that the suffragette and civil rights movements were closely linked with public protests, and that they may have proved a large factor in the success of those movements.
Still, those were massive protests based on relevant single social causes. Nobody even seems sure what people are going to be protesting about at this APEC meeting... I think Syd_Magpies_Girl summed it up:
| Quote: | | Climate Change, Poverty, Workplace Relation Laws, Greed, Corruption etc. |
And you can probably add to that the War in Iraq, fruit bats and John Howard's eyebrows.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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I find it hilarious that in times of need for many people in APEC countries. The best thing to come out of this is we get two Pandas on loan from China for ten years for the SA Zoo. Silver Spoon fed Downer is so pleased about this. It's a pity the Pandas get treated better than the civilians in China.
No wonder most people feel these meetings are a waste of time and money. |
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Syd_Magpies_Girl
The Russell Street Pole Dancing Bogan
Joined: 08 Feb 2007
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David you are correct.
It's more of a social issue with government figures, and about morals. Not to mention, Johnnie's eyebrows.
I'm going to watch the protest tomorrow from my friends apartment in Pitt Street. Should be interesting. Personally, I just want to see this watercannon they've been talking about.
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Insert useless signature here -----> |
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spoljar
Joined: 16 Mar 2004
Location: Lynbrook
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| Culprit wrote: | | It's a pity the Pandas get treated better than the civilians in China. |
Its an interesting point that you make there. A lot of people seem to be very selective about what they protest about. Its amazing how some protest about various things like corporate greed etc etc and yet seem to do little if nothing about the constant human rights violations in China. It makes you wonder about there real intentions when protesting. |
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