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Jezza Taurus



Joined: 05 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:17 pm
Post subject: Saudi ArabiaReply with quote

I know that I shouldn't be surprised by Saudi Arabia's actions in the past but this truly makes a mockery of the fact that Saudi Arabia has been chosen to lead the UN Human Rights Council according to last week's announcement.

Quote:
An international campaign is underway to stop the execution of a young Saudi Arabian man sentenced to death for his role in the 2012 Arab Spring pro-democracy protests.

Ali al-Nimr, who was arrested at the age of 17, is the nephew of a high-profile dissident in Saudi Arabia, which has one of the highest execution rates in the world.

Authorities have accused him of attacking their security forces, but his lawyer said Nimr's confession was made after he was tortured.

Nimr now faces "crucifixion", which human rights groups say means that he will be beheaded and then placed on public display.

Former attorney-general Philip Ruddock, who leads a group of Australian politicians against the death penalty, has been lobbying Saudi officials to spare Nimr.

"Chris Hayes and myself have written directly to Saudi Arabia, to the crown prince and to the diplomatic representatives here in Australia, because we view it as very significant," he said.

An international social media campaign calling for Nimr to be freed has been gaining momentum, but Mr Ruddock said he was yet to receive a response from Saudi officials about the case.

"These are allegations that he admitted these offences. But the argument that is put by his representatives is that [the confession] occurred under torture," he said.

"Now, when you've got issues of doubt like this about a person who is a minor when it occurs, then I think it's fundamentally wrong and I can't see any way that it can be justified."

Saudi Arabia chosen to lead UN's Human Rights Council

So far this year, Saudi Arabia has executed 134 people, many by public beheading.

According to Amnesty International, last year China had the highest execution rate in the world, followed by Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and the United States.

Last week Saudi Arabia was chosen to lead a United Nations Human Right's Council.

The decision was questioned by human rights groups, but the US State Department welcomed the news that one of its key allies had been chosen for the job.

"I mean, we've talked about our concerns about some of the capital punishment cases in Saudi Arabia in our human rights report, but I don't have any more to add to it," deputy spokesman Mark Toner said.

Mr Toner said he welcomed Saudi Arabia heading the council.

"Again, I don't have any comment, don't have any reaction to it. I mean, frankly, it's ... we would welcome it. We're close allies," he said.

He said he could not say "off the top of my head" whether Saudi Arabia got into the human rights report annually.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-28/campaigners-condemn-saudi-arabia-for-death-sentencing-protester/6811576

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Last edited by Jezza on Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:47 pm
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Death sentence for protesting? Exactly what human rights will he be standing up for, fricken ridiculous
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 10:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Saudi Arabian Protester Facing 'Crucifixion' Sparks OutrReply with quote

Jezza wrote:

Last week Saudi Arabia was chosen to lead a United Nations Human Right's Council.

Mr Toner said he welcomed Saudi Arabia heading the council.

"Again, I don't have any comment, don't have any reaction to it. I mean, frankly, it's ... we would welcome it. We're close allies," he said.

He said he could not say "off the top of my head" whether Saudi Arabia got into the human rights report annually.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-28/campaigners-condemn-saudi-arabia-for-death-sentencing-protester/6811576


You couldn't make it up, could you ? The phrase "off the top of my head" is more than a little unfortunate, in the circs.

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Pripyat, in spirit

PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2015 11:07 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

People like to bang on about the US-Israel alliance, but it's about time that this one got a little more scrutiny. That response by the American state department spokesman is truly flabbergasting.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:05 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

David wrote:
People like to bang on about the US-Israel alliance, but it's about time that this one got a little more scrutiny. That response by the American state department spokesman is truly flabbergasting.


yes, realpolitik based on energy security might have made this alliance understandable up to 2010, but with the breakthrough in US shale oil sufficiency, it is time that this was put under the magnifying glass (preferably under a hot sun). It's also a remarkably gauche comment for someone - presumably trained - in the state department.

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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 7:27 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Oil that is, black gold, Texas tea.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:06 am
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think positive wrote:
Oil that is, black gold, Texas tea.


Next thing you ol' Jeb's (sic) a millionaire....

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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:15 am
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Big piece here furthering that article above if someone has time to format and paste it:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-29/sparrow-blind-eye-to-saudi-arabias-brutality/6813422

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:22 am
Post subject: Re: Saudi Arabian Protester Facing 'Crucifixion' Sparks OutrReply with quote

Jezza wrote:
I know that I shouldn't be surprised by Saudi Arabia's actions in the past but this truly makes a mockery of the fact that Saudi Arabia has been chosen to lead the UN Human Rights Council according to last week's announcement.

Quote:
An international campaign is underway to stop the execution of a young Saudi Arabian man sentenced to death for his role in the 2012 Arab Spring pro-democracy protests.

Ali al-Nimr, who was arrested at the age of 17, is the nephew of a high-profile dissident in Saudi Arabia, which has one of the highest execution rates in the world.

Authorities have accused him of attacking their security forces, but his lawyer said Nimr's confession was made after he was tortured.

Nimr now faces "crucifixion", which human rights groups say means that he will be beheaded and then placed on public display.

Former attorney-general Philip Ruddock, who leads a group of Australian politicians against the death penalty, has been lobbying Saudi officials to spare Nimr.

"Chris Hayes and myself have written directly to Saudi Arabia, to the crown prince and to the diplomatic representatives here in Australia, because we view it as very significant," he said.

An international social media campaign calling for Nimr to be freed has been gaining momentum, but Mr Ruddock said he was yet to receive a response from Saudi officials about the case.

"These are allegations that he admitted these offences. But the argument that is put by his representatives is that [the confession] occurred under torture," he said.

"Now, when you've got issues of doubt like this about a person who is a minor when it occurs, then I think it's fundamentally wrong and I can't see any way that it can be justified."

Saudi Arabia chosen to lead UN's Human Rights Council

So far this year, Saudi Arabia has executed 134 people, many by public beheading.

According to Amnesty International, last year China had the highest execution rate in the world, followed by Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and the United States.

Last week Saudi Arabia was chosen to lead a United Nations Human Right's Council.

The decision was questioned by human rights groups, but the US State Department welcomed the news that one of its key allies had been chosen for the job.

"I mean, we've talked about our concerns about some of the capital punishment cases in Saudi Arabia in our human rights report, but I don't have any more to add to it," deputy spokesman Mark Toner said.

Mr Toner said he welcomed Saudi Arabia heading the council.

"Again, I don't have any comment, don't have any reaction to it. I mean, frankly, it's ... we would welcome it. We're close allies," he said.

He said he could not say "off the top of my head" whether Saudi Arabia got into the human rights report annually.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-28/campaigners-condemn-saudi-arabia-for-death-sentencing-protester/6811576


Good pickup Jezza. The UNHRC is a shocker of an organisation. Now being headed up by Saudi, used to feature such countries as Syria, Russia, China, Qatar amongst others Rolling Eyes

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Pripyat, in spirit

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:14 pm
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^ Kind of makes you wonder what the point is, doesn't it?

Although, admittedly, having America or one of its close allies (like us) in charge wouldn't be much better.

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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:04 pm
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David wrote:
^ Kind of makes you wonder what the point is, doesn't it?

Although, admittedly, having America or one of its close allies (like us) in charge wouldn't be much better.


Really? Ask an American woman what they think of this article

http://www.theweek.co.uk/60339/eleven-things-women-in-saudi-arabia-cannot-do

I'm guessing they ain't keen on any gay rights stuff either

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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:09 pm
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OK I will ask it.
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 4:17 pm
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David wrote:
^ Kind of makes you wonder what the point is, doesn't it?

Although, admittedly, having America or one of its close allies (like us) in charge wouldn't be much better.


Saudi, Russia, Syria not much worse than the USA? You do have an edit button David Razz

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David Libra

Reel around the fountain


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:01 pm
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I'm not necessarily talking about domestic policy (like how they kill their prisoners, for instance). Think outside the square a bit - do you think there could be some aspects of their foreign policy (recent and in decades past) which might make America a less than credible commentator on human rights issues?

They're propping up the very regime we're discussing here, for starters.

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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2015 8:11 pm
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David wrote:
I'm not necessarily talking about domestic policy (like how they kill their prisoners, for instance). Think outside the square a bit - do you think there could be some aspects of their foreign policy (recent and in decades past) which might make America a less than credible commentator on human rights issues?

They're propping up the very regime we're discussing here, for starters.


Few countries - and no great power - will have a spotless human rights record, David, just as very few human beings will prove saintly in all of their dealings. As with a human being, You have to look at the broad curve of a nation's character and the way it strives to reconcile its values with the interests and necessities of sustaining and growing itself in a messy world.

In that regard, the US, for all its faults and occasional blunders, has been the one indispensable guarantor of liberal democracy and human rights over the last 100 years or so. Without this one great and very assertive democracy over the past 70-odd years, you (and most of SE Asia) would almost certainly be living under the tender mercies of the Japanese army, and Europe would be living under the Nazis or the Soviets. Perhaps that is solely because of US self-interest. It does not alter the fact that those interests coincide, more often than not, with liberty, state-secularism and democracy. There are many imperfections in US society and policy - but without it, human rights around the world would be a shadow of what they are today.

So if you think there is any real equivalence between the US or Australia (on one hand) and Saudi Arabia or Russia, then I think you are inadvertently conferring false respectability on values which are backward and brutal. That was the classic leftist argument in the Cold war - the US and Soviet Union are "really as bad as each other". It was a coded apologia for gulags and the ideological enslavement of whole populations then, and it remains so now.

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