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luvdids 
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Location: work
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | David wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | Like most people, I cheered this story, and then reflected that most of the people standing and applauding are against the death penalty for humans who willfully kill other humans. We are a strange species. |
This is precisely why I don’t cheer stories like this. While some people might do so and still oppose capital punishment, I actually suspect that attitudes to stories like these would tend to correlate with attitudes to the death penalty. That’s because at the core of both is a belief in the value of human life (even for ‘bad’ people) vs an emotive desire to see bad guys get their comeuppance. So I don’t actually think there’s a great deal of cognitive dissonance here at all. |
There is, of course, a sensible middle ground. I don’t cheer for lions that kill people (although it’s hard not to be amused by the tables being turned) but I certainly think that people who go out on safari to kill things and then get killed doing it, even though the odds are so heavily stacked in their favour, probably don’t warrant particular concern. They’re an occasional consequence of stupidity, like people who fall off cliffs taking selfies, the difference being that people taking selfies aren’t doing anything intrinsically wicked (however much it makes us want to puke), whilst people who kill wild animals for fun are often doing active harm. |
Or in this case POACHERS who usually don't even bother to kill the animal, just hack off whatever bits they're poaching (rhino horn for example) and leave the animal there to die a slow & horrible death. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| stui magpie wrote: | | K wrote: | ...
I think domesticated cats are really evil, and had thought that the wild variety did not have that evil element. Is that wrong?
Part of the problem with domesticated cats is their owners, who seem to think it's fine for them to slaughter hundreds of thousands of birds a year (for example). |
The animals aren't evil, they just aren't humans and have none of our emotions, morals and hangups.
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Domestic cats are relatively intelligent and seem to get pleasure from what humans would regard as wanton acts of cruelty and killing. Should we excuse them from the label "evil"? |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| K wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | K wrote: | ...
I think domesticated cats are really evil, and had thought that the wild variety did not have that evil element. Is that wrong?
Part of the problem with domesticated cats is their owners, who seem to think it's fine for them to slaughter hundreds of thousands of birds a year (for example). |
The animals aren't evil, they just aren't humans and have none of our emotions, morals and hangups.
... |
Domestic cats are relatively intelligent and seem to get pleasure from what humans would regard as wanton acts of cruelty and killing. Should we excuse them from the label "evil"? |
I don't particularly like cats, but yes we should.
They aren't human, they're cats. Do they have fun tormenting an injured bird or mouse? Yes. They have just as much fun doing the same with a toy one.
They have no concept of cruel, or right and wrong for that matter. When people anthromorphise animals and ascribe human emotions and behaviours to them, they're way over complicating something that's just animal behaviour.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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^^^
If cats have no conscience and hence moral responsibility, despite being relatively intelligent, should we then hold their owners morally responsible for acts we consider evil? |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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luvdids
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Location: work
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| K wrote: | ^^^
If cats have no conscience and hence moral responsibility, despite being relatively intelligent, should we then hold their owners morally responsible for acts we consider evil? |
Geez, let it go, domestic cat behaviour has nothing to do with wild lions killing poachers.
However, not ALL domestic cat owners let their pets roam around killing animals. Dogs also kill animals you know, often other pets. And yes, their owners are held responsible. Are the acts considered "evil"? Really? As Stui said, it's in the animals nature, ergo, natural. Just like a lion eating a wildebeest's balls. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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| ^ That's actually what annoys me: dogs are held to a vastly higher standard, an almost impossible-to-meet standard, while cats are allowed to get away with just about anything. The things they put dogs down for... if they applied the same standards to cats, there would hardly be any cats left. As I said previously, it's the domestic cats I've always found despicable, not the wild ones. There are whole bird species being wiped out because cat-owners think it's cruel to keep their cats indoors or to wear collars with bells. How sad. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
I'm a dog person, but a large dog is quite capable of severely injuring or even killing a human. That's what they get put down for. The largest domestic cat, can't. They're environmental vandals and I personally wouldn't shed a tear if all of them, domestic and feral, were wiped out in Australia, but an animal that's just acting on it's instincts isn't evil.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| K wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | Just picked this up 
<pic> |
The man or the car? |
Haha! Missed this one. I'm the man in the picture  |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
I'm a dog person, but a large dog is quite capable of severely injuring or even killing a human. That's what they get put down for. The largest domestic cat, can't. They're environmental vandals and I personally wouldn't shed a tear if all of them, domestic and feral, were wiped out in Australia, but an animal that's just acting on it's instincts isn't evil. |
When dogs do shit like that it’s usualy because their owner is %$^%$£$%. For me cats are like women, it’s a good thing most are not strong and big enough to act instinctively!
Dog lady here all the way!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| think positive wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | ^
I'm a dog person, but a large dog is quite capable of severely injuring or even killing a human. That's what they get put down for. The largest domestic cat, can't. They're environmental vandals and I personally wouldn't shed a tear if all of them, domestic and feral, were wiped out in Australia, but an animal that's just acting on it's instincts isn't evil. |
When dogs do shit like that it’s usualy because their owner is %$^%$£$%. For me cats are like women, it’s a good thing most are not strong and big enough to act instinctively!
Dog lady here all the way! |
Contrary, lazy creatures who demand attention but only provide it when they feel like it or want something?
Bit harsh on cats.  
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down.
Last edited by stui magpie on Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
I'm a dog person, but a large dog is quite capable of severely injuring or even killing a human. That's what they get put down for. The largest domestic cat, can't. They're environmental vandals and I personally wouldn't shed a tear if all of them, domestic and feral, were wiped out in Australia, but an animal that's just acting on it's instincts isn't evil. |
Exactly. It’s why we should not sentimentalise animals too much. I understand loving a dog that seems capable of forming an emotional bond with you. But if lions were plentiful (and they are not), I would struggle to see the great crime in hunting them, given that they are part of nature and exist in the world of hunting and being hunted,where sentiment has no place.
There is something unappealing about it instinctively - a momentary, slightly creepy pleasure from an unequal, distant, disproportionate contest ; the killing of a creature that has a kind of aesthetic nobility in its bearing ; the risk of cruelty and suffering if the kill is not clean etc - and I personally wouldn’t do it for those reasons. But it’s hard to see what the rational objection would be, if lions were as plentiful as rabbits. It would seem to me less horrible than the dreadful way we treat chickens or sheep.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Killing a lion was always a status symbol, going back to Zulu tribesmen and when lions were plentiful, because they are an apex predator.
Nowdays, with canned hunting and modern rifles, shooting a lion is just an exercise in penis enlargement by wealthy phucktards who have no concept of real hunting.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
Killing a lion was always a status symbol, going back to Zulu tribesmen and when lions were plentiful, because they are an apex predator.
Nowdays, with canned hunting and modern rifles, shooting a lion is just an exercise in penis enlargement by wealthy phucktards who have no concept of real hunting. |
I don’t disagree.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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