What pisses you off?
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | I don't know. This isn't just a post hoc thing—thinking about all of the anti-horseracing sentiment on my Facebook newsfeed this morning, it seems pretty clear to me that their criticism has been vindicated.
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Actually, considering that the majority of squawkers on Facebook are idiots who don't know what they're talking about and just jump from one trendy cause to the next adding their vitriol as they go, I'd hardly say what happened vindicates anything they said.
I do take note of people like Morrigu (and TP) however. |
I like the term 'Slacktavism'. When you just can't be arsed going to a protest or actually researching an issue, just make a twitter/facebook/tumblr post and feel those warm fuzzies. |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Unless your a vegetarian you probably shouldn't be responding on the topic of horse racing in the negative.
If you own a dog and feed it canned food then you most certainly should remain silent.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Admittedly, I was reading a breathless exposé this morning about the number of racehorses turned into meat and thought "so what?". Are horses more sentient than cows? Do they feel more pain? Why the selective outrage?
Where I do agree with the anti-horse racing activists is that hurting animals unnecessarily for entertainment seems a lot less defensible than killing them for food. But it is good to be aware of our double standards on some of these issues.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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I would be all for reform of the industry in relation to post racing careers for the animals. My daughter saw Sub Zero (he came to her school) and this kind of retirement is what all race horses should have. Should be fairly simple to institute a reform that upon retirement the owners of a racehorse pay for it to be housed until such time as it can be re-homed. Trouble of course is that beyond 'companion animal' there isn't much that a retired racehorse could DO, horse jobs have all been taken by machinery. Sounds a bit like people actually, hopefully we don't all get sent to the knackers.
Greyhounds are often rehabilitated post racing and become wonderful pets (my Aunt and Uncle take them in for about a month to aid them in adjusting to 'home' life). Of course there is a lot more scope for a dog to get adopted compared to a horse. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| 1061 wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | A spoiler would have been nice .... |
It's a 4 minute long clip about a race horse with a few commentaries printed into the clip. Considering the current topic in the thread I would have thought any reasonable person could have worked it out for themselves.
unsnip >>>>> mates rates of course! |
Thank you, much appreciated
And for those who say what's the big deal, google it and watch that horse die of heart failure. I can't post it. Watch it and tell me that race was $£$%^%%$ worth it.
The dog food comment? Where do you think horses go when they die? There is no need to breed them to suffer and then kill them when they fail to be fast enough for mans greed.
Watch the horse die and tell me it was ok,
Cos I'm telling you it wasn't.
Ive held my horses as the vet gave them a needle before the knacker took them. And I still remember my heart breaking. They were my friends not just some toy to play with.
Go ahead and mock me. I put my money and my voice where my heart is. Cruelty is wrong. Racing is cruel.
Edit: you know, I'm very competitive, I get the excitement. The problem is money. Just like the Essendon saga, to be the best, to be the best ever, eventually you have to cheat or push too far. Some horses love to run. Some love to jump. My crazy little ex Knackery pony loved bending racing so much he would chose to bend around those white poles on open roads, the ones with the reflectors! That horse was pushed way past it's capabilities, too fast? Too far? The Melbourne cup is a long race. And it's a hard race. With the world so ultra competitive now, maybe we need step back.
My big hate is puppy farms,which everyone who knows me knows. Why are we breeding dogs like growing corn, when so many are in the pound? It's just wrong.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Last edited by think positive on Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | Admittedly, I was reading a breathless exposé this morning about the number of racehorses turned into meat and thought "so what?". Are horses more sentient than cows? Do they feel more pain? Why the selective outrage?
Where I do agree with the anti-horse racing activists is that hurting animals unnecessarily for entertainment seems a lot less defensible than killing them for food. But it is good to be aware of our double standards on some of these issues. |
Horses are a shitload smarter than cows.
Cows are only slightly smarter than Sheep, which are only fractionally smarter than rocks.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | Admittedly, I was reading a breathless exposé this morning about the number of racehorses turned into meat and thought "so what?". Are horses more sentient than cows? Do they feel more pain? Why the selective outrage?
Where I do agree with the anti-horse racing activists is that hurting animals unnecessarily for entertainment seems a lot less defensible than killing them for food. But it is good to be aware of our double standards on some of these issues. |
Horses are a shitload smarter than cows.
Cows are only slightly smarter than Sheep, which are only fractionally smarter than rocks. |
Your dead right they. And even so, cows and sheep should still be allowed some dignity and comfort. They should be killed in the quickest least painful way possible. Cheers
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Wokko wrote: | I would be all for reform of the industry in relation to post racing careers for the animals. My daughter saw Sub Zero (he came to her school) and this kind of retirement is what all race horses should have. Should be fairly simple to institute a reform that upon retirement the owners of a racehorse pay for it to be housed until such time as it can be re-homed. Trouble of course is that beyond 'companion animal' there isn't much that a retired racehorse could DO, horse jobs have all been taken by machinery. Sounds a bit like people actually, hopefully we don't all get sent to the knackers.
Greyhounds are often rehabilitated post racing and become wonderful pets (my Aunt and Uncle take them in for about a month to aid them in adjusting to 'home' life). Of course there is a lot more scope for a dog to get adopted compared to a horse. |
ive heard about the greyhound scheme, excellent idea. I have donated to the surgery costs of dogs on rescue sites, rescued with love for one, and more recently, one in Los Angeles who do great work.
when I was riding all the time I was a member of project hope, a horse rescue programme. When I lost Clyde, my kids were babies, and that with the fact that I lost a big piece of my heart along with him, meant I didn't ride anymore, and couldn't bear to keep up with them. my sister had an ex race horse for a while, but he had to be put down, an injury from overwork meant he was in too much pain.
so many riders out there, and horses are so expensive, I know there are some racehorse rehabilitation places, but the supply is just too high. my sister is a cop, and through the force she got a hold of SubZeros saddle blanket from his clerking days.
another great organization is riding for the disabled, but im guessing ex racers would not be suitable!!
I rode an exrace horse through the bush one day, a friends, gees he was hypo! it was an experience and a half!! and I can ride!!
theres no easy answer. andsadly, while this will get some exposure, it will all too soon be forgotten, unitl the next one...
great quotes:
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
― Mahatma Gandhi
“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and man.”
― Mark Twain
“I ask people why they have deer heads on their walls. They always say because it's such a beautiful animal. There you go. I think my mother is attractive, but I have photographs of her.”
― Ellen DeGeneres
“If you want to test cosmetics, why do it on some poor animal who hasn't done anything? They should use prisoners who have been convicted of murder or rape instead. So, rather than seeing if perfume irritates a bunny rabbit's eyes, they should throw it in Charles Manson's eyes and ask him if it hurts.”
Ellen DeGeneres, My Point... And I Do Have One
“You can judge a man's true character by the way he treats his fellow animals.”
― Paul McCartney
“The dog is a gentleman; I hope to go to his heaven not man's.”
― Mark Twain
(im hoping all my friends will be waiting for me on rainbow bridge!!)
and my favourite:
People speak sometimes about the "bestial" cruelty of man, but that is terribly unjust and offensive to beasts, no animal could ever be so cruel as a man, so artfully, so artistically cruel.”
― Fyodor Dostoyevsky
that's why I hate the term it was a dog act!
cheers
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | Admittedly, I was reading a breathless exposé this morning about the number of racehorses turned into meat and thought "so what?". Are horses more sentient than cows? Do they feel more pain? Why the selective outrage?
Where I do agree with the anti-horse racing activists is that hurting animals unnecessarily for entertainment seems a lot less defensible than killing them for food. But it is good to be aware of our double standards on some of these issues. |
Horses are a shitload smarter than cows.
Cows are only slightly smarter than Sheep, which are only fractionally smarter than rocks. |
That may be so, but I said 'more sentient', not smarter. I'm not sure if such a thing can be measured, but I can't imagine horses and cows (or pigs, or sheep, or kangaroos) would be miles apart.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | Admittedly, I was reading a breathless exposé this morning about the number of racehorses turned into meat and thought "so what?". Are horses more sentient than cows? Do they feel more pain? Why the selective outrage?
Where I do agree with the anti-horse racing activists is that hurting animals unnecessarily for entertainment seems a lot less defensible than killing them for food. But it is good to be aware of our double standards on some of these issues. |
Horses are a shitload smarter than cows.
Cows are only slightly smarter than Sheep, which are only fractionally smarter than rocks. |
That may be so, but I said 'more sentient', not smarter. I'm not sure if such a thing can be measured, but I can't imagine horses and cows (or pigs, or sheep, or kangaroos) would be miles apart. |
You'd have to define "sentient" properly first and considering it's already defined in a number of different ways, good luck with that.
If "Sentient" on it's own means having thought, then a rock isn't sentient, a sheep is, (just)
Horses are up there with Dogs as far as intelligence for a domesticated animal goes.
Couple of anecdotes here, feel free to skip ahead.
1. My grandfather was a stockman. Born in 1907 he left home when he was 10 on horseback and never went back. He was a short bloke who walked funny but on horseback he and the horse became one, a single graceful creature. People reckoned he could teach a dog or horse to talk if he bothered to put in the time. Watching him work a dog on the farm was unreal and his horse was like a fkn big dog - under voice control.
Story of mums was back in the 40's they'd go into town once a week to go shopping with the horse pulling the gig. His wife and the kids would do the grocery shopping, he'd go to the pub. Time to go, the cart loaded, he'd get in the gig, tell the horse "Take us home", put the reigns under his foot and go to sleep. The horse would trot the 10 miles back to the house with no direction. That's the original cruise control right there.
2. I went for a river cruise on the Daintree river once years ago. Don't know if you've ever been there but if you do go, don't dangle your hand in the water, salt water crocs are fkn seriously big. So while we're cruising I spot 2 black Angus cows having a drink from the river and asked the guide if the crocs never had a go at such a mound of meat. His response was "dumbest creatures on this earth. A Croc can take one of those things and the other will keep drinking like nothing happened". While I agree with his assertion of the stupidity of the cows, he obviously hadn't met sheep.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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May be right about cows and sheep—was just talking to a friend, though, and she reckons pigs have been found to be more intelligent than dogs (and presumably horses). Wouldn't have expected that.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | Admittedly, I was reading a breathless exposé this morning about the number of racehorses turned into meat and thought "so what?". Are horses more sentient than cows? Do they feel more pain? Why the selective outrage?
Where I do agree with the anti-horse racing activists is that hurting animals unnecessarily for entertainment seems a lot less defensible than killing them for food. But it is good to be aware of our double standards on some of these issues. |
Horses are a shitload smarter than cows.
Cows are only slightly smarter than Sheep, which are only fractionally smarter than rocks. |
That may be so, but I said 'more sentient', not smarter. I'm not sure if such a thing can be measured, but I can't imagine horses and cows (or pigs, or sheep, or kangaroos) would be miles apart. |
You'd have to define "sentient" properly first and considering it's already defined in a number of different ways, good luck with that.
If "Sentient" on it's own means having thought, then a rock isn't sentient, a sheep is, (just)
Horses are up there with Dogs as far as intelligence for a domesticated animal goes.
Couple of anecdotes here, feel free to skip ahead.
1. My grandfather was a stockman. Born in 1907 he left home when he was 10 on horseback and never went back. He was a short bloke who walked funny but on horseback he and the horse became one, a single graceful creature. People reckoned he could teach a dog or horse to talk if he bothered to put in the time. Watching him work a dog on the farm was unreal and his horse was like a fkn big dog - under voice control.
Story of mums was back in the 40's they'd go into town once a week to go shopping with the horse pulling the gig. His wife and the kids would do the grocery shopping, he'd go to the pub. Time to go, the cart loaded, he'd get in the gig, tell the horse "Take us home", put the reigns under his foot and go to sleep. The horse would trot the 10 miles back to the house with no direction. That's the original cruise control right there.
2. I went for a river cruise on the Daintree river once years ago. Don't know if you've ever been there but if you do go, don't dangle your hand in the water, salt water crocs are fkn seriously big. So while we're cruising I spot 2 black Angus cows having a drink from the river and asked the guide if the crocs never had a go at such a mound of meat. His response was "dumbest creatures on this earth. A Croc can take one of those things and the other will keep drinking like nothing happened". While I agree with his assertion of the stupidity of the cows, he obviously hadn't met sheep. |
id love to have met your grandad. I was taught to ride by a stockman. they teach you to be part of the horse. my horse would canter down the side of the road (point cook had no houses back then, it was all paddocks) and when he got to the roads we had to cross, he would stop and look and walk across before taking off again! I was cantering at dusk one summer night, and a sheep came out from behind a bush and startled Clyde, he went sideways onto the road and reared up, I landed flat on my back in the middle of the road. squashed a disc. a car stopped and offered to give me a lift, and his son would take Clyde to his paddock. I said nah mate, can you please just hold him for me, give me a push up, and the second my bum hits the saddle, let him go. sure enough, Clyde took off for home, turned all the right corners, was about 2-3 klm, and he stopped at every corner, and walked across, I just sat! the farmer followed me and he could not believe it!
I had another pony, only about 10 hands high, cocoa was dumped, I bought him from the owner of the paddock to stop the knackery getting him. smartest little bugger ever! if I tied him up at pony club, and he got bored, he would undo the rope, and come looking for me. he got too fat one spring, so I had him in a yard, we thought someone was letting them out during the day into the big paddock, so I put a padlock on the gate. next day, 2 horses in the yard, and cocoa was free. I found a flat spot in the grass where he had got on his knees and crawled under the bottom wire, he had been untying the rope! I had to put him in a stable!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| swoop42 wrote: | Unless your a vegetarian you probably shouldn't be responding on the topic of horse racing in the negative.
If you own a dog and feed it canned food then you most certainly should remain silent. |
I totally disagree with this sentiment - whilst I don't like it and no longer eat meat there is in my opinion a big difference between breeding animals for sustinence and breeding animals or imprisoning animals e.g. circuses for human entertainment and the lure of filthy lucre - and this is what the horse racing " industry" is!
There are ways to treat animals who are destined to end up on our plates with basic decency and humanity and to ensure that cruelty is not tolerated unfortunately many many humans don't give a rats - there is money to be made!
The lure of some reflected glory from owning a racehorse that wins and of course the money that may be made fuels over breeding and horses being made to perform at too early an age or pushed too hard with too much weight( gotta make it all ok for punters) and a disposable mentality - damn not fast enough - get rid of " it" - get another who may be better!! Read - win me more money.
It seems the jockey of Admire Radtki expressed concerns about the horse pre race and the Nippon owners ignored these - maybe they thought they could just chalk it up to " scientific research"
Pricks 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.†|
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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It seems the jockey of Admire Radtki expressed concerns about the horse pre race and the Nippon owners ignored these - maybe they thought they could just chalk it up to " scientific research"
Pricks [/quote]
If the jockey had concerns about the horses welfare he could, and should, have spoken to the club Vet. He also has a responsibility to other jockeys and horses in the race. To blame the owners and refer to them as whale hunters in veiled terms does no credit to a thoughtful poster such as yourself. The majority of horses never recoup their purchase or raising costs. Most owners do it because of the excitement and journey that comes from owning an unraced horse and seeing where it will take them. The handlers and owners of these animals would have been devastated.
Our modern day champion Black Caviar had a brother who died from a spider bite, Just who the hell is to blame there. Should we ban spiders? Racehorses being bred are no different to any other domesticated animals bred for profit or hobby.
I have spent a lifetime around the racing industry. Poorly paid staff getting up at 3 am to educate and get horses fit and then spend a few days mucking out horseboxes is not the glamour you see. Watching a few **** knuckles off The Voice (insert bullshit show at random) sipping champagne and giving uneducated tips on Channel 7 4 days a year is not what it is about.
Horses die. Yes. But so do sheep and cattle if prices are down or the drought hits. But last month 2 beautiful young ladies died riding them in Australia alone and if we had the opportunity to ask them they would would not be canning the industry. These animals are better looked after than some pony bought on a whim for a precocious daughter who is shown a bale of hay a week and a vet when it looks bad because the girl decides boys or facebook are more important.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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whilst I agree with the comments about the kid who loses interest, I disagree with the jockey in the cup.
your saying the jockey could have shared his concerns more. could he? top jockeys get paid a bit yes, (not sure its worth the cost on the body etc however) but they don't have the power of a rich owner all excited to see his horse race in one of the most famous races in the world. if he had had the horse pulled, then who knows what price he would have paid. I don't know how strong his feeling was, I don't know how obvious the thing that made him feel it was, so I wont judge him there. He will now have to live with this forever. that will be punishment enough.
I do put some blame on the owners, maybe they could have checked more, but I also get why it happened.
being a strapper, work rider etc is poorly paid hard work, for people who just love horses. and I take my hat off to them. not many see real reward for it. just like everything else, power and money mean those at the top get all the reward.
too many not quite good enough horses compared to the few that make it and are royally treated all their life.
and with athletics and all other sport the pressure for better and faster than ever is becoming to much, to orchestrated, to reliant on sports mediceine. and horses, and people suffer. mans greed for money and power screw something else up. the country racetrack where it all started, get back to the fun.
one thing for sure, that poor horses death, put out there so painfully in that video will at least give a glimpse of the bad side of racing to the everyday person that thinks its all just a game, and we can make a few bucks. hopefully his death does some good, and now may he Rest In Peace.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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