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What pisses you off?

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Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:31 am
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But some of them are?
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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 12:56 am
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watt price tully wrote:
1061 wrote:
There is always two sides, what the father did obviously is indefensible but yeah I'd like some journo to find out what flicked the dads switch.

Her hurt is real but these (mostly) Men don't just become monsters in a few seconds it usually is the end of a long drawn out dispute where the mothers have all the aces and often pull one out to shut the men down.


Whatever.

NO ONE HITS

YOU (plural) HIT SHE LEAVES. End of story.

The message I give all my female clients. Not all of them are ready to leave due to lack of options, poverty & fear.

The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.

Women don't have to be saints. However the overhwhelming majority of DV is men to women. Always has been & until us blokes get a few things riught with our gender this will continue to be the case. No if's but's or maybe's.

Your daughter starts getting hit, get her out of that relationship or help her get out of that relationship quick smart.


Bullshit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks#t=97

What should a man do if a woman hits first? Tell me that.
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:53 am
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Wokko wrote:
watt price tully wrote:
1061 wrote:
There is always two sides, what the father did obviously is indefensible but yeah I'd like some journo to find out what flicked the dads switch.

Her hurt is real but these (mostly) Men don't just become monsters in a few seconds it usually is the end of a long drawn out dispute where the mothers have all the aces and often pull one out to shut the men down.


Whatever.

NO ONE HITS

YOU (plural) HIT SHE LEAVES. End of story.

The message I give all my female clients. Not all of them are ready to leave due to lack of options, poverty & fear.

The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour.

Women don't have to be saints. However the overhwhelming majority of DV is men to women. Always has been & until us blokes get a few things right with our gender this will continue to be the case. No if's but's or maybe's.

Your daughter starts getting hit, get her out of that relationship or help her get out of that relationship quick smart.


Bullshit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlFAd4YdQks#t=97

What should a man do if a woman hits first? Tell me that.


Wokko, you're meant to be intelligent. Your reply is sheer male right wing reactionary nonsense.

Are you saying DV is not mostly male to female?

Are you saying men don't assault woman a hell of a lot more than the other way around?

Your question fits the small minority of DV situations.

How many men die because of women's violence?

How many women & children die because of men?

How many women kill their husbands & kill their children because their husband is leaving the relationship?

Just go to the Domestic Violence Unit & speak with the women there. I deal with them about once per week.

You're not stupid. But your arguments do you no favours.

I am truly shocked you would use such garbage as an argument.

Too much time on the internet.

Not even the IPA would support your hare brained views here Rolling Eyes Shocked

Shocked

(Edit for speling)

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Last edited by watt price tully on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:13 am; edited 2 times in total
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:27 am
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We do have to keep in mind obviously that female-on-male domestic abuse is underreported and automatically treated very differently culturally (I'm not sure whether that extends to the police station and the courtroom, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did). The gender presumptions and sexist double standards that feminists have fought against for decades and continue to fight against don't just magically stop when it comes to an area where men might be disadvantaged (and, indeed, there's reason to believe that less progress has been made in those areas because they haven't been fought for as openly or vigorously).

But it's also still obviously true that the male in the relationship will in most cases be physically stronger and will also be more likely (through a combination of hormones and socialisation) to react aggressively. There's no equivalence to be had here: spousal abuse is and always will be a crime in which most of the offenders are men and most of the victims are women. So, what's the answer? Beyond what we're doing now, we need to be identifying the reasons why DV perpetrators are acting out violently; finding early warning signs and offering better support structures for potential perpetrators; giving much more emotional support to boys and men; providing better protection for victims both before and after a report is filed; and ensuring that each case is treated on its merits without gender prejudice.

Why am I focusing so much on helping potential perpetrators? Because they are the source of the problem. Give them better support and coping mechanisms and you'll reduce the incidence of violence. That should be the primary focusprevention is always the best cure.

Otherwise, I guess all we can ask for is that the issue of domestic violence is treated seriously. I think it's safe to say that these days it is.

watt price tully wrote:
How many women kill their husbands & kill their children because their husband is leaving the relationship?


Hardly any, thankfully. But let's not forget that hardly any men do either. We're talking very extreme and shocking behaviour here.

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Tannin Capricorn

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 2:47 am
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Hare-brained. Hare like a rabbit.
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:09 am
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Tannin wrote:
Hare-brained. Hare like a rabbit.


Hair as in the musical - hang on that was a good idea Wink

Hair as in Welsh rabbit?

Hair as in pilonidal sinus?

Mea Culpa. Correction noted.

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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:09 am
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David wrote:


watt price tully wrote:
How many women kill their husbands & kill their children because their husband is leaving the relationship?


Hardly any, thankfully. But let's not forget that hardly any men do either. We're talking very extreme and shocking behaviour here.


David my father killed my mother as surely as if he'd put a gun to her head and pulled the trigger.

He beat her senseless, I saw it, he smashed her tiny tiny body, he blackened her eyes, she got brain tumours, she got dementia, she died, when she left she only had 12 years to get over 44 of torment, physical abuse, severe mental abuse, and 4 of those she spent in a nursing home. He reduced her to a beaten battered shell, of the amazing woman she once was, a woman I never got to know. After viewing the movie I made for the funeral so many people said to me "wow, your mum was amazing, I never knew she was in the airforce, she rode horses, she was a go kart champ, she was so stunningly beautiful and happy". I didn't know her that way either. The tears stream down my face as I type this. I'm looking at my 2nd Mother's Day without her. And I'm sorry I didn't make that movie earlier, that I didn't know those pictures existed til it was too late to tell her how amazing She was.

Do not trivialise this subject. Saying hardly any men do either, that this is not shocking and severe, but my reality is so different from that. You never forget. You never lose the picture in your head of your fathers fist smashing into your mothers skull. The sheer terror as you hide under your bed as you hear your father in the next room terrorising your sister, calling her names, and then the slap.

Yes some woman hit men. Embarrassment and shame stop them speaking out. I wish my mum was just embarrassed. Maybe that's why I don't care when I make a fool of myself. I don't care if people laugh at me when I say something dumb. I've got an insular layer around me I wish I could discard.

Men should not raise their hand to woman. Or men.

Woman should not raise their hand to men. Or other woman.

And nobody should beat a child.

Let's just keep our hands to ourselves.

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Last edited by think positive on Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:12 am
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watt price tully wrote:
[quote="Tannin"][i]Hare[/i]-brained. Hare like a rabbit.[/quote]

Hair as in the musical - hang on that was a good idea Wink

Hair as in Welsh rabbit?

Hair as in pilonidal sinus?

Mea Culpa. Correction noted.
When was this exactly?
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1061 



Joined: 06 Sep 2013


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 9:42 am
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think positive wrote:
David wrote:


watt price tully wrote:
How many women kill their husbands & kill their children because their husband is leaving the relationship?


Hardly any, thankfully. But let's not forget that hardly any men do either. We're talking very extreme and shocking behaviour here.


David my father killed my mother as surely as if he'd put a gun to her head and pulled the trigger.


Lets move the discussion into the here and now, it is 2014 and we have so many services available for BOTH men and women.

How many Men have been left suicidal because the mother of their children is using them as a weapon to try and maintain some sort of control or power in the relationship they have with their kids dad.
How many men are left to become lonely old men because they could never trust another partner and their relationship with their children was poisoned and sabotaged by their childrens mother.

Lets stop the story's about "when I was young I witnessed blah blah blah" and move into the 21st Century where Men and Women do have equality. Only problem that I see is some Women like to be choosey about when they are equal and when they are the poor defenseless weaker sex.

I probably piss people off with that statement but I'm prepared to call a spade a spade! And I think I might be the only one here prepared to do just that.
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Tannin Capricorn

Can't remember


Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:03 am
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^ One of the worst posts of all time. Your second para raises vital and telling points which are far too often swept under the table ... but then it turns out that you are not furthering the discussion of a difficult and vital aspect, you are merely preparing the ground for a callous, ignorant, and ill-informed whinge.
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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:08 am
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1061 wrote:
think positive wrote:
David wrote:


watt price tully wrote:
How many women kill their husbands & kill their children because their husband is leaving the relationship?


Hardly any, thankfully. But let's not forget that hardly any men do either. We're talking very extreme and shocking behaviour here.


David my father killed my mother as surely as if he'd put a gun to her head and pulled the trigger.


Lets move the discussion into the here and now, it is 2014 and we have so many services available for BOTH men and women.

How many Men have been left suicidal because the mother of their children is using them as a weapon to try and maintain some sort of control or power in the relationship they have with their kids dad.
How many men are left to become lonely old men because they could never trust another partner and their relationship with their children was poisoned and sabotaged by their childrens mother.

Lets stop the story's about "when I was young I witnessed blah blah blah" and move into the 21st Century where Men and Women do have equality. Only problem that I see is some Women like to be choosey about when they are equal and when they are the poor defenseless weaker sex.

I probably piss people off with that statement but I'm prepared to call a spade a spade! And I think I might be the only one here prepared to do just that.


You've shifted the argument from Domestic Violence which I thought was the issue at hand.

Your points are also issues to be discussed of course but I thought this was specifically related to Domestic Violence (the remarkable Batty woman as noted by Morrigu)

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think positive Libra

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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:34 am
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1061 wrote:
think positive wrote:
David wrote:


watt price tully wrote:
How many women kill their husbands & kill their children because their husband is leaving the relationship?


Hardly any, thankfully. But let's not forget that hardly any men do either. We're talking very extreme and shocking behaviour here.


David my father killed my mother as surely as if he'd put a gun to her head and pulled the trigger.


Lets move the discussion into the here and now, it is 2014 and we have so many services available for BOTH men and women.

How many Men have been left suicidal because the mother of their children is using them as a weapon to try and maintain some sort of control or power in the relationship they have with their kids dad.
How many men are left to become lonely old men because they could never trust another partner and their relationship with their children was poisoned and sabotaged by their childrens mother.

Lets stop the story's about "when I was young I witnessed blah blah blah" and move into the 21st Century where Men and Women do have equality. Only problem that I see is some Women like to be choosey about when they are equal and when they are the poor defenseless weaker sex.

I probably piss people off with that statement but I'm prepared to call a spade a spade! And I think I might be the only one here prepared to do just that.


I'm in the here and now, unfortunately I don't get to just move on, it's part of me, who I am.

And as a woman, I can tell you straight out that we have a long way to go as far as the equality thing. Race, sex, sexuality, etc etc, it ain't over yet.

And therefore my only possible response to your utterly insensitive, and obviously biased by some woman who jilted you, remark is

**** you too


Aside from that, how many woman got divorced because their partner cheated, was emotionally unavailable, abusive, etc etc, just as how many men left for the same reason. The men (and woman) left behind need support too, it cuts both ways.

Not all woman, and (as in Stuis case) men poison the memory of their ex to their children.

And certainly, Luke's mum did not. Which in hind sight seems unfortunate, because her beloved son is now dead at the hands of his father.

The thing is, when a relationship is as toxic as theirs obviously was, the kids see it, they are not stupid. It's healthy for no one. Certainly there are vindictive exes of both sex who do the wrong thing by their kids. But shit these days I know far to many parents, married, cohabitating, divorced, living in $$%^%%$ igloos who don't put their kids first.

Your comments are way out of line.

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Last edited by think positive on Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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1061 



Joined: 06 Sep 2013


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 10:36 am
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Tannin wrote:
^ One of the worst posts of all time. Your second para raises vital and telling points which are far too often swept under the table ... but then it turns out that you are not furthering the discussion of a difficult and vital aspect, you are merely preparing the ground for a callous, ignorant, and ill-informed whinge.


OK I should have used industry speak and I am truly sorry if my above post offended anyone.

We need to stop pushing our own personal experiences from times long gone onto current day victims of DV. Times and attitudes have changed and so many services are available to all people of all sex's no matter what age.
There should be no excuse for the ultimate betrayal we all agree has started this discussion but for some reason the system still has cracks people are still falling through.
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:51 am
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What pisses me off is why people would take their dog to an ANZAC day service. Really? You can't just walk down to the ceremony without leaving the mutt behind?

Back to the more recent discussion, there are many different types and degrees of domestic violence from the outright physical to the pure mental and all shades in between. None of them are good things, we don't need to diminish the impact of one to emphasise the impact of another.

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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 1:02 pm
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1061 wrote:
. Times and attitudes have changed.


I'm not sure they really have. On the surface perhaps as witnessed by the community outrage when such tragic events occur but even then there are many who believe that the woman " should have just left" or that she " must have done something - pushed his buttons" - that does men a great disservice by absolving them of responsibility for their behaviour and suggesting that they are not capable of anything but primitive response.

Despite the assistance and services now available there is still a sense of shame and embarrassment that stops many seeking such assistance until the situation has escalated to a critical point and some of that stems from the entrenched views of many in the community that " you somehow contributed to the situation - you must have done something - have failed in your role to end up like this". I have no evidence to support this but I think it is reasonable to suggest that for men who are subjected to DV at the hand of their partner this is perhaps the key reason that stops them seeking assistance.

Obviously this is a broad generalisation but I really believe the Family Law system needs to expand the understanding and compassion shown to mothers to fathers and realise that fathers have rights as well and that the vast majority are good men who just want fairness and the right to maintain a relationship with their children. I can understand how so many men walk away from Court disillusioned and disempowered and I don't believe the current services offered to men are anywhere near enough or effective.


And parents of both genders need to stop using their children as a tool for revenge!

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