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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:35 pm
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^it’s worth reading the article very closely. Note the repeated implication that this hideous crime is somehow the particular responsibility of the NT government, rather than the individual.

What a very strange other world we have created for aboriginal people to live in. Surrounded by drugs, drink, pornography and economically unsustainable communities ... what chance do they have ? I am pretty certain we will find that the man who did this was heavily under the influence of one or other drugs at the time. It’s not the act of a normal mind. Rather as with guns in the US, until we choke off demand, this little domestic holocaust will continue, generated from our false idea that the rights of the healthy trump the murder of innocents by the unhealthy.

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stui magpie 

dum nei, sakte ja


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:24 pm
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I've started selectively applying for jobs.

First HR job I applied for, I'm overqualified for and could do in my sleep (which was the general idea) and didn't even get an interview. Confused Mad

May just have to put the mask back on, go for some jobs that suit my resume and experience and hope I can still pretend to care.

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Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Location: Ballarat!

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:42 pm
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If you get a cushy HR manager job in a big hospital or nursing home and a Finance manager position becomes available then let me know. The small country hospital my partner works at and is about to go on maternity leave from is not exactly doing so well.
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 6:53 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
I've started selectively applying for jobs.

First HR job I applied for, I'm overqualified for and could do in my sleep (which was the general idea) and didn't even get an interview. Confused Mad

May just have to put the mask back on, go for some jobs that suit my resume and experience and hope I can still pretend to care.


White males over 50 don’t tick the “equality and diversity” (sic) boxes, so it’s hard. Before the anti-discrimination acts, discrimination on grounds of gender or colour was much lower. Those who convince themselves that their bad instincts are doing good are capable of great injustice.

Keep applying. Discrimination is a vile thing, but it can be overcome by sheer persistence.

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partypie 



Joined: 01 Oct 2010


PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 7:57 pm
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Mugwump wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
I've started selectively applying for jobs.

First HR job I applied for, I'm overqualified for and could do in my sleep (which was the general idea) and didn't even get an interview. Confused Mad

May just have to put the mask back on, go for some jobs that suit my resume and experience and hope I can still pretend to care.


White males over 50 don’t tick the “equality and diversity” (sic) boxes, so it’s hard. Before the anti-discrimination acts, discrimination on grounds of gender or colour was much lower. Those who convince themselves that their bad instincts are doing good are capable of great injustice.

Keep applying. Discrimination is a vile thing, but it can be overcome by sheer persistence.


It’s basically hard for anyone over 50, not just white males. It’s called ageism
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stui magpie 

dum nei, sakte ja


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: Where ever i go, there I am

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 8:35 pm
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^

Yeah, I'd considered that. The only place it doesn't apply is in Snr management roles and I really don't want to do that, but I may have to.

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ronrat 



Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:46 am
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stui magpie wrote:
^

Yeah, I'd considered that. The only place it doesn't apply is in Snr management roles and I really don't want to do that, but I may have to.


I was sent to WISE emplpyment and they basically told me I was not in a target group. At my 6 monthly interview they asked me for a list of people I had tried to get employment with. I only had 6 weeks to go before I could access super. So I gave them a list and I did mention I maight be getting an opening in Ibdonesia. Answer, well if you get that position let us know as we helped you faciltate that position. My answer. "I don't think so"

Word of mouth will be how you get something at our age.

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think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:24 pm
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Mugwump wrote:
^it’s worth reading the article very closely. Note the repeated implication that this hideous crime is somehow the particular responsibility of the NT government, rather than the individual.

What a very strange other world we have created for aboriginal people to live in. Surrounded by drugs, drink, pornography and economically unsustainable communities ... what chance do they have ? I am pretty certain we will find that the man who did this was heavily under the influence of one or other drugs at the time. It’s not the act of a normal mind. Rather as with guns in the US, until we choke off demand, this little domestic holocaust will continue, generated from our false idea that the rights of the healthy trump the murder of innocents by the unhealthy.


WTF! I don’t care what his problem is was, will be, I agree with Stui, cut it off! Slowly. Sure, drastic changes and education are needed, but there is still a thing called personal responsibility.

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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:12 am
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Mugwump wrote:
^it’s worth reading the article very closely. Note the repeated implication that this hideous crime is somehow the particular responsibility of the NT government, rather than the individual.

What a very strange other world we have created for aboriginal people to live in. Surrounded by drugs, drink, pornography and economically unsustainable communities ... what chance do they have ? I am pretty certain we will find that the man who did this was heavily under the influence of one or other drugs at the time. It’s not the act of a normal mind. Rather as with guns in the US, until we choke off demand, this little domestic holocaust will continue, generated from our false idea that the rights of the healthy trump the murder of innocents by the unhealthy.


Why do you think pornography is a factor? Nearly every white Australian male beyond puberty has willingly encountered pornography on the internet, many most on a regular basis. Where did this idea come from that Aboriginal people somehow can’t handle it?

It’s correct to see acts like this as a partial result of social dysfunction (although we need to be careful to avoid creating a racist dichotomy in which only non-Aboriginal people’s crimes are caused by personal failings and Aboriginal people’s crimes stem from social dysfunction.) Something has gone badly wrong in the mind of a person for them to want to do something like this and follow through with it. The only useful response is to work on fixing that, whether it be on an individual or macro scale. If you don’t care about the problem, then you’re not meaningfully engaging with it.

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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:07 pm
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David wrote:
...
Nearly every white Australian male beyond puberty has willingly encountered pornography on the internet, many most on a regular basis.
...

Is there solid evidence for this claim? Has nearly every white Australian male beyond puberty even had internet access?
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 11:15 pm
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David wrote:
Mugwump wrote:
^it’s worth reading the article very closely. Note the repeated implication that this hideous crime is somehow the particular responsibility of the NT government, rather than the individual.

What a very strange other world we have created for aboriginal people to live in. Surrounded by drugs, drink, pornography and economically unsustainable communities ... what chance do they have ? I am pretty certain we will find that the man who did this was heavily under the influence of one or other drugs at the time. It’s not the act of a normal mind. Rather as with guns in the US, until we choke off demand, this little domestic holocaust will continue, generated from our false idea that the rights of the healthy trump the murder of innocents by the unhealthy.


Why do you think pornography is a factor? Nearly every white Australian male beyond puberty has willingly encountered pornography on the internet, many most on a regular basis. Where did this idea come from that Aboriginal people somehow can’t handle it?

It’s correct to see acts like this as a partial result of social dysfunction (although we need to be careful to avoid creating a racist dichotomy in which only non-Aboriginal people’s crimes are caused by personal failings and Aboriginal people’s crimes stem from social dysfunction.) Something has gone badly wrong in the mind of a person for them to want to do something like this and follow through with it. The only useful response is to work on fixing that, whether it be on an individual or macro scale. If you don’t care about the preoblem, then you’re not meaningfully engaging with it.


Good Lord, you’re back. Hope you got done what you wanted to. The forum more or less slipped into a deep sleep without you.

P199, section 24 of the “Little children are sacred” report (the title seems to me patronizing in the extreme, but that’s what it was called), states :
QUOTE

The issue of children’s and the community’s exposure
to pornography was raised regularly in submissions and consultations with the Inquiry. The use of pornography as a way to encourage or prepare children for sex (“grooming”) has featured heavily in recent prominent cases.

In written submissions to the Inquiry from community groups and individuals, concern was expressed about the availability of pornography in communities and children’s exposure to pornographic material, in particular videos and DVDs. This was as a result of poor supervision, overcrowding in houses and acceptance or normalisation of this material

UNQUOTE

I said nowhere above that Aboriginal people are uniquely unable to handle such material. I doubt there is any predisposition of that nature. But I believe that high rates of drinking and drug abuse, family instability and isolation makes hard core porn even more toxic than usual. To the extent these are more prevalent in Aboriginal communities, there probably is a particular susceptibility. On porn as on so many issues, the capable middle classes got the freedoms they wanted, and the poor, scared and vulnerable suffered the dark side.

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David Libra

Rose with a violent heart


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: où surréal côtoie

PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:03 pm
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Fair enough – thanks for the clarification. I haven't looked at that report in depth, but I have to say I was puzzled by the NT intervention's focus on pornography. It's one of those things, like violent video games, that are confidently linked to social ills by certain sections of society despite the fact that studies on the topic have been at best indecisive. I was wondering if that had happened here, and while the explanation you've excerpted from the report goes some of the way towards explaining why this was the case, it still strikes me as something of a knee-jerk reaction; surely the issue here is more child neglect and inadequate living conditions than the fact that adult DVDs were lying around (surely, in any case, a phenomenon that the internet has by now rendered thoroughly obsolete, for better or for worse).

I'm no libertarian, but seeing pictures of signs in Aboriginal areas proscribing pornography possession (when, as I said, the vast majority of white Australian men have willingly engaged with it – surely you don't need me to provide data on that, K!!) does strike one as a racist double standard in practice, even if the intent was not so. It's not hard to call to mind similar policies from the first half of the 20th century banning Aboriginal people from possessing alcohol, which, among other things, caused the celebrated painter Albert Namatjira to receive a jail sentence towards the end of his life (among the many other injustices and indignities visited upon Indigenous people in these times).

Of course, I acknowledge that the severe deprivation in Aboriginal communities sometimes does require responses that might seem drastic to those of us who are geographically and culturally distant from them. But even a well-meaning policy may (rightly or wrongly) end up disenfranchising its supposed beneficiaries – much as the NT intervention quite evidently has done (arguably setting back the reconciliation process by decades). This is why policy in this area is so damn hard! But the least that governments can do is work closely with the communities themselves, so at least their members can feel some ownership of the policies that affect their lives.

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Last edited by David on Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:05 pm
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Of course you do?
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K 



Joined: 09 Sep 2011


PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:17 pm
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David wrote:
... (when, as I said, the vast majority of white Australian men have willingly engaged with it – surely you don't need me to provide data on that, K!!) ...


https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00224499.2016.1191597 Wink

The abstract claims 84% of men ever, and 76% of men in the past year (but does not break it down into white/non-white).
The use of "computer-assisted telephone interviews" would also appear to bias it in favor of those with internet access and familiarity, as would the age interval 16-69. (Do 90-year-olds know what the internet is?) Wink


Last edited by K on Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 9:19 pm
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The past and future are one.
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