What pisses you off?
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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The reason there is no outrage is no one gives a rates anymore.
It's like what more can we do or give to satisfy our native people for the sins of our fathers, the ones doing this are media moles looking for a headshot on the Tele. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Jezza wrote: | http://www.smh.com.au/queensland/brisbane-g20/g20-protesters-burn-australian-flag-20141116-11noxu.html
What a disgrace and the silence about this is deafening. If this was an Aboriginal flag instead of an Australian flag people would be hysterically outraged.
Talk about double standards  |
Jezza I totally agree with you,
and those making fun of this post now, would be the three squealing like pigs if it was an aboriginal flag.
But let's not forget only white people are racist 
Sure has been a great week for Australia publicity wise, bogan bogan bogan
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Oh, didn't realise they were Indigenous rights activists.
I take back what I said about it being juvenile. Not too hard to imagine why they might feel antipathy towards our national paraphernalia.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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| David wrote: | Oh, didn't realise they were Indigenous rights activists.
I take back what I said about it being juvenile. Not too hard to imagine why they might feel antipathy towards our national paraphernalia. |
if you were Islamic youd have your tongue cut out!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Would I? In which countries?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration
According to that, it attracts a jail sentence in some Muslim countries, but the legal status of flag burning isn't mentioned in others so perhaps it's not strictly against the law. No mention of tongues being cut out that I can see.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| They'd cut your hands off and beat you with them then! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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even better!!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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| Jezza wrote: | http://www.smh.com.au/queensland/brisbane-g20/g20-protesters-burn-australian-flag-20141116-11noxu.html
What a disgrace and the silence about this is deafening. If this was an Aboriginal flag instead of an Australian flag people would be hysterically outraged.
Talk about double standards |
I was in the Paddington Tavern in Brisbane in 1995. Australia was playing Croatia in soccer at Lang Park and a heap of Croatian supporters thought they would burn some Australian flags. Unfortunately for them 40 or so Australian soldiers had just returned form Somalia and had not had a drink for 6 months. They were due to go on leave the next morning. The Police, the MPs, security just sat back and watched. The coppers confiscated a number of soccer tickets and and some ambos were called.
One idiot yelled at the cops "What are you arresting me for." "Arson for starters, then public nuisance, then we can look at endangering property".
The burning of the flag is not the problem. It can be be the consequence. But then some of you might deny that Cronulla race riots happened.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Tannin wrote: | An excellent answer, David, spot on in all regards bar one. First, it is an egregious error to equate the current sad excuse for an Australian flag with patriotism. Show me a genuine patriot who cares in the least about that dated symbol of the defunct British Empire. Second, the current flag has been appropriated - hijacked really - by minority interests and has come to stand for a blinkered and discredited vision of Australia circa 1950 top-dressed with lashings of loathsome Americanisms, all driven at the heart by the same ignorant bogan attitudes that appear on redneck racist t-shirts.
By adopting the current flag so publicly, the rednecks and the bogans have made it their own. No civilised person can respect it now. (A very similar thing happened to the Eureka Flag in the 1970s or 80s when it was very prominently adopted by the militant and corrupt fringe of the union movement, and in consequence it was indelibly tainted by the association.)
Any genuine patriot, any fair-dinkum Australian, has little or no respect for the current flag. Indeed, you could make a pretty good argument that disrespect for our current unfortunate flag (not to mention our appallingly bad national dirge) should be seen as prima facie evidence that the person having trhat disrespect is a fair-dinkum patriotic Australian.
PS: To my knowledge, the Aboriginal flag has not yet been tainted or degraded by any such unfortunate association. However, I freely grant that I do not follow Aboriginal affairs closely, so take that last statement for what it is worth.
PPS: Personally, I don't bother disrespecting the flag, or respecting it for that matter. I generally give it only the attention it deserves: which is to say none to speak of. That dreadful dirge we call our "national anthem" is a different matter. The lyrics are amongst the worst I have ever had the misfortune to hear - and as a one-time rock musician I've hear a lot of very bad lyrics in my time - and the tune is worse - for sheer banal lack of inspiration, it stands unchallenged in a class of its own. Even as a life-long republican, I'd swap it for the ridiculously inappropriate God Save the Queen in a heartbeat. Perhaps that isn't saying a lot seeing as I'd also swap it for a ring tone, a Coca-Cola ad, or the sound of a dunny flushing. Anything would be an improvement. I have never in my life stood up for Advance Australia Fair and I never will, not while I have ears to hear a tune and eyes to recognise the hopelessly banal absurdity of it.
Hell, look at the first verse: "for we are young" - wrong: we are part of the oldest continuously occupied continent on the planet - "and free" - doubtful - "with golden soil" - hopelessly wrong: Australia has the least fertile soils of any continent on Earth - "and wealth for toil" - most of our wealth these days comes not from toil but from letting foreign companies hire foreigners on 457 visas to dig the place up and send it to China and Japan - "our home is girt by sea" - this is the 21st Century, I don't think we do girting anymore. Still, given the rubbish served up in the rest of the verse, poor old Girt looks like a star. Perhaps she will be remembered for a while after the rest of the dirge is deservedly consigned to the cesspit. |
While I agree with a lot of that, including how the Eureka flag was and still is co-opted by corrupt building unions, I'd make a couple of points.
1. The flag is our flag, for better or worse. I'd like to see something that represented Australia too and piss the union jack off, but until that day comes it is our national flag and deserves respect as such.
2. The fact that some peoples over zealous sense of patriotism offends you and some other likewise delicate souls is no reason to diss the flag. Diss the bogans if you like, people have been using their national flag in a variety of ways for decades, nothing new.
3. Agree about the national anthem in almost every way, except that I will and do stand up for it at an ANZAC day ceremony and the ANZAC day game. I remember the referendum although I was too young to vote and my clear preference was "God Bless Australia" but it copped too much criticism because it was to the tune of Waltzing Matilda and the peanuts spreading their misleading campaign even back then made a big deal out of that. Far better song, even if the words would be a bit dated.
See what others think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJKQvHhSs8g
Oh, and BTW I have more tolerance for Indigenous protesters torching the Australian flag than I do for others as I can empathise with why even if I don't agree with the act. |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Cheers Stui. A few points in reply:
1: Why does our national flag, or for that matter any other national flag "deserve respect as such"? To the historian. flags are simply a hangover from the days when armed bands of thugs, rapists and thieves waged war on the peasants, and occasionally on each other, all under a banner (which is today a flag). We are not talking honour and glory here, or very little of it, we are talking pure, unvarnished thuggishness and senseless brutality of the worst kind, mostly with the flimsiest of excuses. Now I'm sure you will say (quite rightly) that flags have other meanings these days, nevertheless, I have yet to see persuasive argument that our flag (or any other flag) "deserves respect" simply because it is our flag.
2. "The fact that some peoples over zealous sense of patriotism offends you and some other likewise delicate souls is no reason to diss the flag." Perhaps, perhaps not. But the fact that dissing the flag gets right up their obnoxious, ignorant noses provides a very good reason. Not only does it annoy them (which is possibly a useful social good in itself), it also tends to make them come out in a rash of absurd, hand-on-heart patriotic drivel which makes them look ridiculous and is very bad PR for their cause - and that is certainly a social good.
3: I'm with you re Anzac Day and the like. All honour to our veterans, and I'll always stand up for that cause. This can sometimes result in me standing up respectfully, sitting down again for the Awful Dirge, then jumping back to my feet again in rapid and confusing succession, but hey, it makes me happy and the exercise is good for me.
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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HAH, 
In regard to why respect the flag, I get the origins but some things morph beyond their original brief. The Flag and the Coat of Arms are symbols that are used to identify Australia.
As such, to me at least, even though I don't particularly like the flag itself, it is a symbol that represents this country so when someone disrespects the flag they are disrespecting a symbol of Australia and therefore disrespecting Australia.
I'm sure there's all sorts of ways that can be proven wrong or proven bogan or whatever, but hey, you asked why and I answered. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Flags: 20% necessary branding distinction, 80% infantile and divisive cowboys and indians. The current flag does an horrific job at the first 20%, and a wonderful job at the last 80% for the morons who think they're still fighting for imperial glory.
As a piece of visual branding the current flag damages the nation—unless you've got some old Charles and Diana wedding plates to sell on eBay.
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Interesting discussion, guys. Agree with most of what has been said.
To me, flag-burning seems a cheap and lazy visual means of stating "I reject what this country stands for". That may seem a bit extreme, but if someone were to say that on national TV or at the pub or at a protest, it probably wouldn't raise much interest. It obviously falls within the bounds of acceptable freedom of speech. The great thing about freedom of speech and protest is that we're well within our rights to either say "yes, I see their point", or, "Geez, what a bunch of halfwits", or just ignore them altogether. All pretty normal and healthy reactions if you ask me.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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I don't care whos $£$%^%%$ flag it is. all flags deserve respect, and especially from its own citizens.
that amazing photo of the American flag being raised at Iwo Jima, the simular picture after 9/11, they mean something.
and yeah you don't get it. and I give up trying to explain it. but your (and that's plural your) disrespect sucks. and if the day comes when we need the support of what ever force we have, I hope you all have to $£$%^%%$ grovel at their feet. but you wont. because unlike you, they don't judge. they will help you anyway.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| think positive wrote: | I don't care whos $£$%^%%$ flag it is. all flags deserve respect, and especially from its own citizens.
that amazing photo of the American flag being raised at Iwo Jima, the simular picture after 9/11, they mean something.
and yeah you don't get it. and I give up trying to explain it. but your (and that's plural your) disrespect sucks. and if the day comes when we need the support of what ever force we have, I hope you all have to $£$%^%%$ grovel at their feet. but you wont. because unlike you, they don't judge. they will help you anyway. |
Fighting imperial Japan and Germany in WW2 was a correct and valid use of a flag. But that would be lucky to be one in ten of all wars in modern (and all?) history. Are you going to live off that DVD image forever, or take into account the rest of history?
Your apparent disrespect for the monumentally horrific physical and psychiatric damage of war is infinitely more appalling than our disrespect for a bloody flag. We will be the ones trying to stop your children getting killed while billionaire efffwits, psychotic investors, and religious nutters are pushing to send them away to fight corrupt and fraudulent wars such as Iraq and Afganistan. You can thank us later—or you can forget like those who supported the Iraq catastrophe have already forgotten.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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