What pisses you off?
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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David wrote: | think positive wrote: | Foreign investors buying up property is driving the market, not negative gearing, rents haven’t kept up with property values so it’s not really worth it now. We need to follow New Zealand’s new laws, no foreign buying policy. |
It’s not A or B, but a combination of both. I don’t think it would hurt to cut down on foreign property buying, but ultimately it’s just one part of a broader problem – a system that fundamentally favours developers and landlords and neglects the interests of people who actually want to live in their own house. Get rid of foreign buyers and the price increase may slow somewhat, but the problem will still be there, because there are plenty of Australians who want to get into the investment market who will keep pushing up property prices on their own. |
And it’s not A or B alone, but also C : the million people added to Melbourne’s population between 2006 and 2017. That was not done in the interests of the unpropertied and the struggling, it was done in the interests of the people doing the “investing”. And as I understand it, non-citizens cannot buy existing housing anyway, only new-builds, so arguably they are adding to capacity (though that is debatable). Immigration and investment in existing housing are almost certainly the culprits here. Why there are not more protests about it is a mystery. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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Too many people have bought into the system and have a stake in maintaining it, I’m guessing. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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You’re right, I had forgotten that. I sometimes think these people will rationalise almost any nonsense to preserve their sanctimony and think well of themselves. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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I don’t think it’s any secret that, as the Greens have moved from being a niche environmentalist outfit to a mainstream centre-left social democratic party, certain hardcore environmentalist policies have fallen by the wayside (and been picked up by newer microparties like the Sustainable Party). And unlike some, I don’t necessarily see those policies (as adopted by the NZ Labor government) as necessarily racist or wrong.
What’s not clear to me is that immigration is actually bad for the country, given the way that it increases productivity and skills and counterbalances population decline. You can accuse John Howard of many things, but he didn’t open the floodgates out of some naive sense of generosity or love for multiculturalism – it was thought (correctly?) that immigration would be good for the economy.
If the problem is that infrastructure and housing have failed to cope with the influx, then is it possible that the fault lies with insufficient commitment to infrastructure development and better regulation of the housing industry? Both eminently achievable things, mind you, had there been the political will to clamp down on negative gearing and forgo tax cuts in favour of a bigger public infrastructure fund.
I’m happy to hear arguments to the contrary, and acknowledge that there’s a lot about this subject that I don’t fully understand, but I’m just not convinced that immigration is the villain here. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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David wrote: | I don’t think it’s any secret that, as the Greens have moved from being a niche environmentalist outfit to a mainstream centre-left social democratic party, certain hardcore environmentalist policies have fallen by the wayside (and been picked up by newer microparties like the Sustainable Party). And unlike some, I don’t necessarily see those policies (as adopted by the NZ Labor government) as necessarily racist or wrong.
What’s not clear to me is that immigration is actually bad for the country, given the way that it increases productivity and skills and counterbalances population decline. You can accuse John Howard of many things, but he didn’t open the floodgates out of some naive sense of generosity or love for multiculturalism – it was thought (correctly?) that immigration would be good for the economy.
If the problem is that infrastructure and housing have failed to cope with the influx, then is it possible that the fault lies with insufficient commitment to infrastructure development and better regulation of the housing industry? Both eminently achievable things, mind you, had there been the political will to clamp down on negative gearing and forgo tax cuts in favour of a bigger public infrastructure fund.
I’m happy to hear arguments to the contrary, and acknowledge that there’s a lot about this subject that I don’t fully understand, but I’m just not convinced that immigration is the villain here. | according to a current affairs the chinese are leaving properties empty, not even getting tenants in them. i wonder just how many properties are vacant. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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That’s a problem with the property foreign investment laws, not immigration. We used to have a foreign investment scheme that prohibited this sort of speculation but the housing market drives Australia’s economic decision-making, so every time there’s a slight downturn, decisions are taken to push it back up. This was one of those. The answer probably lies in the regime for taxing vacant residential properties, rather than foreign investment in the property market, per se - that is, make it less attractive for people to just buy housing here and speculate on its capital growth. The law is about to change in Victoria in that regard. I haven’t looked closely enough at it to form a view whether it’s likely to work, yet. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Pies4shaw wrote: | That’s a problem with the property foreign investment laws, not immigration. We used to have a foreign investment scheme that prohibited this sort of speculation but the housing market drives Australia’s economic decision-making, so every time there’s a slight downturn, decisions are taken to push it back up. This was one of those. The answer probably lies in the regime for taxing vacant residential properties, rather than foreign investment in the property market, per se - that is, make it less attractive for people to just buy housing here and speculate on its capital growth. The law is about to change in Victoria in that regard. I haven’t looked closely enough at it to form a view whether it’s likely to work, yet. |
yeah true, i realized that, just putting in a bit if an explanation to davids comment. the tax is a good idea. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006 Location: Thailand
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think positive wrote: | Pies4shaw wrote: | That’s a problem with the property foreign investment laws, not immigration. We used to have a foreign investment scheme that prohibited this sort of speculation but the housing market drives Australia’s economic decision-making, so every time there’s a slight downturn, decisions are taken to push it back up. This was one of those. The answer probably lies in the regime for taxing vacant residential properties, rather than foreign investment in the property market, per se - that is, make it less attractive for people to just buy housing here and speculate on its capital growth. The law is about to change in Victoria in that regard. I haven’t looked closely enough at it to form a view whether it’s likely to work, yet. |
yeah true, i realized that, just putting in a bit if an explanation to davids comment. the tax is a good idea. |
It needs someone to refire up the squatters union and break in and squat. Since the owners are absent they won't know for maybe a year and they will never get them out.
The trouble is most of these dwellings would be inner city and we really need more people in provincial areas , if at all _________________ Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005 Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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God the PC Crowd pisses me off for Standing up for Criminals. They are the Reason we have a Massive Crime Problem as they Treat Criminals as Victims.
The Criminals need to be Actually F*cking Punished _________________ I am Da Man |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007 Location: Between London and Melbourne
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David wrote: | I don’t think it’s any secret that, as the Greens have moved from being a niche environmentalist outfit to a mainstream centre-left social democratic party, certain hardcore environmentalist policies have fallen by the wayside (and been picked up by newer microparties like the Sustainable Party). And unlike some, I don’t necessarily see those policies (as adopted by the NZ Labor government) as necessarily racist or wrong.
What’s not clear to me is that immigration is actually bad for the country, given the way that it increases productivity and skills and counterbalances population decline. You can accuse John Howard of many things, but he didn’t open the floodgates out of some naive sense of generosity or love for multiculturalism – it was thought (correctly?) that immigration would be good for the economy.
If the problem is that infrastructure and housing have failed to cope with the influx, then is it possible that the fault lies with insufficient commitment to infrastructure development and better regulation of the housing industry? Both eminently achievable things, mind you, had there been the political will to clamp down on negative gearing and forgo tax cuts in favour of a bigger public infrastructure fund.
I’m happy to hear arguments to the contrary, and acknowledge that there’s a lot about this subject that I don’t fully understand, but I’m just not convinced that immigration is the villain here. |
Immigration indeed can have many benefits, not least to governments which never net out the effect of immigration on “growth”, which should be reported in per capita terms, but never is.
However, I think you once said you did VCE economics. Melbourne has had a 20% increase in population in ten years, which means it needs 20% more houses (demand curve shift to the right). The supply curve is highly inelastic owing to limited land. If you think this has not impacted house prices massively, You’d need a new theory of economics (not to mention a new theory of common sense) to explain why not. I think your ideological need to justify immigration makes you want to extenuate its effects, but I see absolutely no reason why a genuinely centre- left party would support a policy which hurts the unpropertied and working class more than anyone else, and favours the landholders.
There is no doubt that foreign and domestic investment (the latter encouraged by perverse tax incentives) has also had a lot of malign influence.
Foreign investment in unoccupied properties is clearly undesirable, but at least the foreign new money is driving supply expansion, given they cannot purchase new builds. The VRPT concept being legislated through the parliament is conceptually reasonable, but the specifics will need careful scrutiny to avoid causing unjust anomalies (eg .aussies moving abroad to work, how does self-reporting work, how much occupancy is necessary etc).
And of course it begs the real question - why do we need to let foreigners own unproductive assets on Australian land at all ? Why not just ban foreign investment in residential property ? As so often, our politicians want to seem to be taking firm action, without acting on the hard stuff that might leave them open to the cheap, spurious, unfounded, empty-headed charge of racism. _________________ Two more flags before I die! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008 Location: The 18
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I suggest stocking up now and/or going to your GP for a prescription before they're needed. _________________ He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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swoop42 wrote: | I suggest stocking up now and/or going to your GP for a prescription before they're needed. |
Yep I’m going to get a couple of packets for sure. I’d be lucky to use a box in 3-6 months, but I like to have some on me just in case. I’m about due for a checkup so I’ll see if there is anything else that works. It’s no biggie I guess but it’s annoying. Cheers _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
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Skids wrote: | That we give so much to so called "refugees"
My daughter and her partner are on a single (low) income, until Trev finishes his apprenticeship. They have a 5 month old baby and are buying their first home.
How much do you reckon centrelink give them in assistance?
60 *&^*(&%$% bucks a week!
This place is a pathetic joke! |
Well, I may have jumped the gun here... yes I know, not like me at all
I said to middle miss "I'm taking you to Centrelink to sort this shit out"
At first she was slightly hesitant... " Don't go off Dad" she uttered.
"Of course I won't"
So we get down there 10 minutes before opening time yesterday and join the Que... this is where my $40k/pa goes.... what a bunch of pathetic looking no hoppers we're behind
Anyway, we're greeted by some obnoxious little mole who tells us to do it on-line... nah lady, I want to talk to someone!
Turns out, after 15 minutes, yep, good service, we're greeted by... yep... a middle aged Aussie bloke by the name of Neil. What a fucke top bloke!
Neil couldn't have been more helpful, long story short.. the kids are entitled to a health care card, over $300 a fortnight plus a parenting payment. They are over the moon.
You just have to speak to the right people _________________ Don't count the days, make the days count. |
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