What pisses you off?
Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None |
 |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| How small are you talking here? |
|
|
|
 |
Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Can we bring back the motorcycle gangs who only shot each other and could be avoided if you didn't want to get involved? I'd never even heard of random home invasions or car jackings happening until the Africans got here. I also remember an Asian Crime squad or something similar to tackle Vietnamese gangs back in the 80s, surely something similar is needed again? |
|
|
|
|
Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
|
|
|
|
|
think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| swoop42 wrote: | If you sell drugs you are targeting the vulnerable and often the young.
If you use fear and intimidation for personal gain you are targeting those who are to afraid to stand up to you or go to the police.
Both of those are the standard practice of the Mick Gatto's of the world or criminal gangs whether they be motorcycle or Apex. |
the drug taking youngsters still had a choice. and im certainly not saying Gatto is in any way a better human than the current scum, but strong arming druggies with no cash or gamblers with no sense is a long way from beating up grandma for her milk money IMO. neither are good, but the druggie and gambler probably expect something to happen.
just two suburbs over there are gangs or youths roaming the streets picking on kids on the way home from school for their mobile phones or runners.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | Just seems like you're kind of dealing in simplistic stereotypes here – the hard-working aspirational Italian immigrant vs the out-of-control violent African youth. Of course there were Italian ne'er-do-wells, muggers and dole bludgers, too, as well as violent gangs – Mick Gatto and co. didn't spring from nowhere. And of course there was racism directed towards Italians that had nothing to do with how hard they did or didn't work.
We know that these characters exist in all immigrant communities, so what you really need are trends: are the proportion of teenage criminals higher in African communities than they are/were in other new immigrant communities? Are the proportion of people in stable jobs lower? To answer those questions, you need data, and if you have that data you need to understand why these things are happening and how they can be remedied.
The trouble here, I think, is that a lot of perception is shaped not by data or analysis, but rather by raw media reportage, which can (of course) be exaggerated and misleading, and prejudice, which we can all fall victim to whether we want to or not. |
You're the one who raised the comparison with Italians, with no data just supposition to support your argument.
For the record, hundreds of thousands of displaced Europeans migrated to Australia in the years post WWII. Did we have gangs of European youths roaming streets mugging people, burgling houses, stealing cars or staging gang fights? No.
There's around 20,000 people in Australia of Sudanese birth according to census figures, 6000 in Victoria. A small fraction of the number of Europeans who came in over a similar 20 year period, yet you would have to be blind to not see that they are over represented in youth gang related violence.
| Quote: | Proportionally, Sudanese-born youths are vastly over-represented in the statistics, responsible for 7.44 per cent of alleged home invasions, 5.65 per cent of car thefts and 13.9 per cent of aggravated robberies.
The latest census data shows people born in Sudan or South Sudan made up 0.11 per cent of Victoria's population in 2011. |
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-12-04/statistics-raise-questions-about-calls-to-deport-youth-offenders/8087410
There's some data for you. |
Thanks, that’s what I was looking for. Of course, it doesn’t include crime rates of other new migrant groups (now and in the past) as a comparison, but I agree that those statistics indicate high prevalence.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Wokko wrote: | | Can we bring back the motorcycle gangs who only shot each other and could be avoided if you didn't want to get involved? I'd never even heard of random home invasions or car jackings happening until the Africans got here. I also remember an Asian Crime squad or something similar to tackle Vietnamese gangs back in the 80s, surely something similar is needed again? |
I too remember that. They terrorised places like Footscray mall. Certainly would be a good idea to get the squad going again. I remember talk of the Ajax gang squad, did they achieve much?
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
Skids 
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
|
| Post subject: | |
|
That we give so much to so called "refugees" 
My daughter and her partner are on a single (low) income, until Trev finishes his apprenticeship. They have a 5 month old baby and are buying their first home.
How much do you reckon centrelink give them in assistance?
60 *&^*(&%$% bucks a week!
This place is a pathetic joke!
_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count. |
|
|
|
|
Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Centrelink give me nothing. Go figure. Must be means-tested or something. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^ Precisely. It could well be that they should be getting more, Skids – many people have pointed out in the past that our welfare system is pitiful and leaves too many people struggling with little to live on – but you’re dreaming if you think that refugees are getting a better deal than they are.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Skids wrote: | That we give so much to so called "refugees"
My daughter and her partner are on a single (low) income, until Trev finishes his apprenticeship. They have a 5 month old baby and are buying their first home.
How much do you reckon centrelink give them in assistance?
60 *&^*(&%$% bucks a week!
This place is a pathetic joke! |
What I’m about to write is not a criticism of your daughter, Skids, who has every right to take the benefits provided by parliament, and I can imagine that she is probably doing it tough. But at a system level, is this really healthy?
Presumably it is a choice to have a baby when you do not have sufficient income and you are trying to buy a home without much income. Is that really what benefits were designed for ? To top up wages and subsidise new mortgages ? I think the idea of benefits was to protect against involuntary unemployment and illness. It seems to have shifted. Governments love to create dependency on themselves.
_________________
Two more flags before I die! |
|
|
|
|
Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Yeah I get what youse (yes it's a word!) are saying.
My point is we throw welfare at lazy, useless and unwarranted recipients, yet here we have a young couple, they've built a house, the kid is working hard doing his apprenticeship and they didn't 'choose' to have a baby... these things happen sometimes.
I've never got a cracker off the government and paid over $40k tax last year.
They could at least help out young aussies a bit... don't ya reckon?
_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count. |
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| What do you look like? Where did you get it? |
|
|
|
|
Skids
Quitting drinking will be one of the best choices you make in your life.
Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Joined 3/6/02 . Member #175
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| HAL wrote: | | What do you look like? Where did you get it? |
Pussy Hal, I like pussy.... everywhere 
_________________
Don't count the days, make the days count. |
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| From my . |
|
|
|
|
RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | Just seems like you're kind of dealing in simplistic stereotypes here – the hard-working aspirational Italian immigrant vs the out-of-control violent African youth. Of course there were Italian ne'er-do-wells, muggers and dole bludgers, too, as well as violent gangs – Mick Gatto and co. didn't spring from nowhere. And of course there was racism directed towards Italians that had nothing to do with how hard they did or didn't work.
We know that these characters exist in all immigrant communities, so what you really need are trends: are the proportion of teenage criminals higher in African communities than they are/were in other new immigrant communities? Are the proportion of people in stable jobs lower? To answer those questions, you need data, and if you have that data you need to understand why these things are happening and how they can be remedied.
The trouble here, I think, is that a lot of perception is shaped not by data or analysis, but rather by raw media reportage, which can (of course) be exaggerated and misleading, and prejudice, which we can all fall victim to whether we want to or not. |
I like your humanist viewpoint David, but I think there is an issue not being faced up to.
If we accept large numbers of refugees (as we should) from war torn and strife ridden parts of the world (as we should), especially from backward and ignorant (ie deeply religious) regions (ie, most of the middle East and Africa), we are likely to have to deal with serious social problems as a result. Crime, violence and ill treatment of women are some obvious examples. This is to be expected. However, it is not an argument against accepting refugees/migrants from these regions, but rather, an argument that we, as a relatively rich society, need to devote sufficient resources to support and assist these communities, as they struggle to adapt to living in a new and different society. If we simply allow ethnic/religious ghettos to emerge, cut off and isolated from the rest of us, then it is a recipe for disaster. So for me, the evidence of disproportional violence and crime from African and Middle Eastern communities, is not to be ignored or refuted. Rather it should be acknowledged, and then responded to with greater outreach and social policies to assist these obviously troubled communities. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
