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member34258
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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| Post subject: Justice in Australia |  |
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Does it exist?
I recall a case in Victoria where a woman, after years and years of physical and mental abuse, was jailed for killing her husband. Several appeals were made to various governments and she has only recently been released.
Let's compare that to this case;
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2007/s1957088.htm
| Quote: | | 943 days after Mulrunji died a painful death in the Palm Island watch house, the man who now admits to causing the fatal injuries was acquitted of his manslaughter. |
So, the difference in verdicts relates to what? The fact that a policeman was involved? Or that the victim was Aboriginal?
It is a poor indictment on Australia that a minority race consider | Quote: | | that even getting the case to court was a victory in itself |
And now I hear reports that the policeman involved is being courted by television stations for his story. No doubt with big fat chequebooks. |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| Post subject: Re: Justice in Australia | |
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| member34258 wrote: | Does it exist?
I recall a case in Victoria where a woman, after years and years of physical and mental abuse, was jailed for killing her husband. Several appeals were made to various governments and she has only recently been released.
Let's compare that to this case;
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2007/s1957088.htm
| Quote: | | 943 days after Mulrunji died a painful death in the Palm Island watch house, the man who now admits to causing the fatal injuries was acquitted of his manslaughter. |
So, the difference in verdicts relates to what? The fact that a policeman was involved? Or that the victim was Aboriginal?
It is a poor indictment on Australia that a minority race consider | Quote: | | that even getting the case to court was a victory in itself |
And now I hear reports that the policeman involved is being courted by television stations for his story. No doubt with big fat chequebooks. |
Difference is quite simple. In the first case (women was from Bendigo, surname was Oslands from memory) the women admitted consciously killing her husband, albeit following years of abuse. In the second case, as suspect as the initial police investigations seems to have been, the jury could not be 100% sure that the accused police officer deliberately put his knee into Mulrunji, and therefore had no choice but to find him not guilty. Agree with the overall premise of your post (ie how poorly aboriginals tend to be treated by the criminal justice system), but in this case, at least on the medical evidence that has been publicised, I can't see how a jury could have made any other decision. |
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member34258
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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I take your point nomadjack, but I do believe that if a person admits that he/she was responsible for a persons death then that should be considered manslaughter. The admission of guilt would mean that a guilty verdict is not reversible.
Sentencing is where the amount of liability should be measured.
I wonder if the same largess will be afforded to the truck driver in Kerang. While I don't advocate that he walks over this incident, I accept that he would be charged with culpable driving causing death as soon as I heard he had survived. The fact that a train always has right of way means he is unable to enter a not guilty plea. So again, sentencing is where his fate will be decided.
As it should have been in QLD. |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| member34258 wrote: | I take your point nomadjack, but I do believe that if a person admits that he/she was responsible for a persons death then that should be considered manslaughter. The admission of guilt would mean that a guilty verdict is not reversible.
Sentencing is where the amount of liability should be measured.
I wonder if the same largess will be afforded to the truck driver in Kerang. While I don't advocate that he walks over this incident, I accept that he would be charged with culpable driving causing death as soon as I heard he had survived. The fact that a train always has right of way means he is unable to enter a not guilty plea. So again, sentencing is where his fate will be decided.
As it should have been in QLD. |
Again, it's a different situation. In Queensland, the officer claimed the injury was caused by an accident, ie by him falling on top of Doomadgee. If you accept that this was the case then you can't hold him culpable as accidentally falling on top of someone is not a crime nor i the circumstances is it negligent.
In the Kerang incident, the accident was caused by the truck driver negligently failing to stop at the crossing. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| There is a place called Sentencing. |
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member34258
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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I don't know how you can make a judgment on Kerang when the case has not been up yet. Who knows if there is negligence or it was an accident. I was very surprised to see the new "high visibility" lights installed at the crossing afterwords. Reckon a good lawyer can use that.
The point is, accident or not, if the actual act that caused death is admitted, then a judge should make the determination on whether you walk free or are convicted. |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| member34258 wrote: | I don't know how you can make a judgment on Kerang when the case has not been up yet. Who knows if there is negligence or it was an accident. I was very surprised to see the new "high visibility" lights installed at the crossing afterwords. Reckon a good lawyer can use that.
The point is, accident or not, if the actual act that caused death is admitted, then a judge should make the determination on whether you walk free or are convicted. |
Judgement on Kerang is made on basis of reported facts. Doesn't seem to be a whole lot of doubt about the case. Has been established that the lights were working, that the driver failed to stop, and that his failure wasn't caused by any mechanical malfunction. Doesn't leave him with a whole lot of wriggle-room, especially seeing as he was a local driver, had done the same trip previously and therefore presumably knew the crossing well.
As for your second point, think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Cause of death ie some sort of physical blow from the policeman was established. What was contested was whether this physical blow was deliberate or resulted from an accidental fall. IMO it is the jury who should make the central decision on the intent behind the act, not the judge, because this is what determines the policeman's innocence or guilt in the matter. |
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Alec. J. Hidell
Joined: 12 May 2007
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| member34258 wrote: | I take your point nomadjack, but I do believe that if a person admits that he/she was responsible for a persons death then that should be considered manslaughter. The admission of guilt would mean that a guilty verdict is not reversible.
Sentencing is where the amount of liability should be measured.
I wonder if the same largess will be afforded to the truck driver in Kerang. While I don't advocate that he walks over this incident, I accept that he would be charged with culpable driving causing death as soon as I heard he had survived. The fact that a train always has right of way means he is unable to enter a not guilty plea. So again, sentencing is where his fate will be decided.
As it should have been in QLD. |
There is nothing to prevent him entering a "Not Guilty" plea.
He may well have a defence none of us are aware off.
_________________
The one man in the world, who never believes he is mad, is the madman. |
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bazdaddy 
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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Disregard any race and the justice system is still £$%$ed, it never ceases to amaze me how lightly people get off in this country.
_________________
The black & white jumper, worn by heroes worshipped by millions. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| And £$%$ed it never ceases to amaze him or her how people get off in this country is Disregard any race and the justice system. |
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Alec. J. Hidell
Joined: 12 May 2007
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| bazdaddy wrote: | | Disregard any race and the justice system is still £$%$ed, it never ceases to amaze me how lightly people get off in this country. |
I think that to make an assumtion of "light sentencing" you would need to be in Court everyday to hear the evidence of each case, otherwise it is just speculation, you know just like the Herald-Sun does
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The one man in the world, who never believes he is mad, is the madman. |
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