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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I hope that we can get to a stage where it will cease to matter. I think that's already the case with racism (I actually believe that the only true racism that still exists in the mainstream is political correctness, but that's for another time), but unfortunately homophobia is still a major issue. Hopefully we will reach a point where homosexuality is considered by the general public to be as valid a lifestyle as any, even though that may be still a few generations away.
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joffa corfe
PREMIERS 2010
Joined: 13 Nov 2003
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Our family has become good friends with Anthony simply because of Meri's involvement with Aust Idol a couple of years ago the many times i've met Anthony you couldnt wish to meet a nicer person..he actually confided to Meri a couple of years ago he was gay..its a non issue.
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sherrife 
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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| David wrote: | | I hope that we can get to a stage where it will cease to matter. I think that's already the case with racism (I actually believe that the only true racism that still exists in the mainstream is political correctness, but that's for another time), but unfortunately homophobia is still a major issue. Hopefully we will reach a point where homosexuality is considered by the general public to be as valid a lifestyle as any, even though that may be still a few generations away. |
You think racism is finished? Mate have you been to America recently? Please don't make such sweeping statements when you have no idea. Black and Hispanic Americans are treated like dirt over there, just as Indian and Pakistanis are treated like dirt in the Middle East, just as Chinese people living in the Philippines are despised, just as Aboriginal people here are completely ignored and vilified, just as Arabs are maltreated at almost every airport in the world (i would know lol) just as apartheid is still having a major impact in South Africa... do i really need to go on?
Also, there is more to racism and sexism and all the other ism's than outright violence and/or abuse. Structural violence is an integral part of these ism's, violence that has not been dealt with at all by the wider community.
The claims of so called "reverse-racism" by white men are f*cking ludicruous. In most cases those who attack political correctness are really just people who have an agenda in highlighting superficial differences in society, and making them important.
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I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| Proud Pies wrote: | He was advised to hide it by Australian Idol because they told him he would lose the teenybopper girl vote.
So, he didn't come out for a reason. |
Not that I'm particularly interested in defending Idol but I did read the following PP which seems to contradict what you're saying:
"He said he regretted denying his sexuality in the 2004 interview but said rather than being pressured by minders to hide his sexuality during Australian Idol, he feared coming out might harm his Idol chances."
Taken from: http://www.smh.com.au/news/music/anthony-callea-comes-out/2007/03/27/1174761391314.html |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| David wrote: | | I hope that we can get to a stage where it will cease to matter. I think that's already the case with racism (I actually believe that the only true racism that still exists in the mainstream is political correctness, but that's for another time), but unfortunately homophobia is still a major issue. Hopefully we will reach a point where homosexuality is considered by the general public to be as valid a lifestyle as any, even though that may be still a few generations away. |
David you have got to be $£$%^%%$ joking. I just flicked on the Today show to check what was happening with the cricket, but instead watched those intellectual giants Karl Stefanovic and Sarah O'Hare discussing the footage of that Ukranian swimming coach and his daughter attaking each other (O'Hare actually called him a Russian, but hey we're splitting hairs now aren't we?). Karl's closing comment was that 'I'm not sure how they do things where he comes from but we don't do things like that here'. And you think racism and bigotry in the mainstream no longer exists except for 'political correctness'? I bet you won't even recognise it as a racist comment. |
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bazdaddy 
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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| nomadjack wrote: | | David wrote: | | I hope that we can get to a stage where it will cease to matter. I think that's already the case with racism (I actually believe that the only true racism that still exists in the mainstream is political correctness, but that's for another time), but unfortunately homophobia is still a major issue. Hopefully we will reach a point where homosexuality is considered by the general public to be as valid a lifestyle as any, even though that may be still a few generations away. |
David you have got to be $£$%^%%$ joking. I just flicked on the Today show to check what was happening with the cricket, but instead watched those intellectual giants Karl Stefanovic and Sarah O'Hare discussing the footage of that Ukranian swimming coach and his daughter attaking each other (O'Hare actually called him a Russian, but hey we're splitting hairs now aren't we?). Karl's closing comment was that 'I'm not sure how they do things where he comes from but we don't do things like that here'. And you think racism and bigotry in the mainstream no longer exists except for 'political correctness'? I bet you won't even recognise it as a racist comment. |
I wouldn't call it racist, just a little stereotypical.
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| bazdaddy wrote: | | nomadjack wrote: | | David wrote: | | I hope that we can get to a stage where it will cease to matter. I think that's already the case with racism (I actually believe that the only true racism that still exists in the mainstream is political correctness, but that's for another time), but unfortunately homophobia is still a major issue. Hopefully we will reach a point where homosexuality is considered by the general public to be as valid a lifestyle as any, even though that may be still a few generations away. |
David you have got to be $£$%^%%$ joking. I just flicked on the Today show to check what was happening with the cricket, but instead watched those intellectual giants Karl Stefanovic and Sarah O'Hare discussing the footage of that Ukranian swimming coach and his daughter attaking each other (O'Hare actually called him a Russian, but hey we're splitting hairs now aren't we?). Karl's closing comment was that 'I'm not sure how they do things where he comes from but we don't do things like that here'. And you think racism and bigotry in the mainstream no longer exists except for 'political correctness'? I bet you won't even recognise it as a racist comment. |
I wouldn't call it racist, just a little stereotypical. |
"Racism: The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others." New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, (Third Edition)Houghton Mifflin 2005.
Bazdaddy the comment implicitly ascribed the coach's behaviour to his race and then suggested that we don't do things like that here, ie that we are superior. Racism doesn't get anymore straightforward than that. |
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bazdaddy
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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Pretty low level racism, seems to be the way, anything deemed to be negative towards another country is racism.
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The black & white jumper, worn by heroes worshipped by millions. |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| bazdaddy wrote: | | Pretty low level racism, seems to be the way, anything deemed to be negative towards another country is racism. |
It's not a matter of being 'low level'. That's like saying it's a pretty low level pregnancy. It's also not a matter of being negative towards another country. Ascribing any kind of behavioural traits to race is racism by definition. Simple as that. The level of offensiveness may vary, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a racist statement. |
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sherrife
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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Hear hear NJ
Low-level racism... jeez
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I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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bazdaddy
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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Yeh fair call, personally I don't find it to be racist.
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bazdaddy
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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| sherrife wrote: | Hear hear NJ
Low-level racism... jeez |
Well what every racist action is on the same level?
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hoggy 
Bristle
Joined: 05 Jun 2001
Location: BT
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I can still give him shit for being small and a crap singer yes?
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bazdaddy
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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Not in this P/C world once you label him that you be called a homophobe because the reason you labelling him that is purely and simply because he is gay.
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I didn't want to hijack this thread, but hey, I'm willing to debate this if other people want to.
Firstly, I'll expand on my comment. I have developed a theory (I haven't completely explored the idea, but it sounds plausible) that what most people call 'racism' today is actually other things.
For example, I thought of this: why does racism exist? I believe that it is an undeveloped childish condition wherein people simply dislike those who are 'different'.
Let us consider that great diversified social environment: high school. In my two years there it was clear that while everyone was generally friendly and respectful towards each other (ok, let's not be too generous  ), there was a very obvious divide with the Chinese exchange students. They generally hung out in groups, and only rarely associated with other students. The clear reason for this, as far as I could see, was the language barrier. While all of them had some ability at speaking English (which I greatly admire, by the way, it can't be an easy language to learn), it was simply too difficult to communicate much of the time. For them, I assume, it would have made far more sense to hang out with others who they could converse with freely, and also shared parts of their culture.
However, second or third generation students who had an Asian heritage were not considered different at all. They weren't 'asian', they were simply 'people' like everybody else, Australians, if you like. Of course, I am speaking for myself, and others may have held prejudices, but if so it certainly wasn't apparent.
This all led me to conclude that what really divides our society is not race, but language and culture.
I then thought about other issues. What about racial stereotypes - e.g., Asians are bad drivers, Arabs are terrorists, Lebs hang out in gangs... aren't these stereotypes examples of racism?
Well, not really. While I am very quick to condemn stereotypes myself, they are really nothing more than simplistic observation. People watch the TV, and see that terrorism at the moment is almost solely related to Islam. Islam = Arabs. Yes, I know it's simplistic, and I am not condoning it at all. However, I really cannot agree that it is an example of racism.
And, well, what can one really do when there IS a tendency for Lebanese males to hang out in gangs, and often cause mayhem? Of course, not all or probably even most teenage Lebanese males do this (one of my mates is Lebanese and he's as metro as they come  ), but people observe from a basic viewpoint and the stereotype is formed. Sad, but true: all stereotypes have some basis in truth.
So, where is the racism? What about, say, Pauline Hanson? Surely she was racist...?
I don't think so, or at least it was more complex than that. Hanson saw Australian culture as being diluted by 'Asian' culture, and she saw this as a bad thing. Her problem wasn't with people who have a certain colour skin, or a certain cheekbone structure, but people who were 'different', i.e. of a different culture. I think you can take that and apply it to many, many cases of 'racism', and thus it starts to look that racism as such is no longer really relevant in Australian society, at least.
It should be noted that I am only talking about Western societies. Socieities in Africa, Asia and the middle east are as racist as ever, unfortunately, but I am more interested in Western culture, and particularly Australian culture.
I hope that this has provided some background to my view, anyhow.
| sherrife wrote: | | David wrote: | | I hope that we can get to a stage where it will cease to matter. I think that's already the case with racism (I actually believe that the only true racism that still exists in the mainstream is political correctness, but that's for another time), but unfortunately homophobia is still a major issue. Hopefully we will reach a point where homosexuality is considered by the general public to be as valid a lifestyle as any, even though that may be still a few generations away. |
You think racism is finished? Mate have you been to America recently? Please don't make such sweeping statements when you have no idea. Black and Hispanic Americans are treated like dirt over there, just as Indian and Pakistanis are treated like dirt in the Middle East, just as Chinese people living in the Philippines are despised, just as Aboriginal people here are completely ignored and vilified, just as Arabs are maltreated at almost every airport in the world (i would know lol) just as apartheid is still having a major impact in South Africa... do i really need to go on?
Also, there is more to racism and sexism and all the other ism's than outright violence and/or abuse. Structural violence is an integral part of these ism's, violence that has not been dealt with at all by the wider community.
The claims of so called "reverse-racism" by white men are f*cking ludicruous. In most cases those who attack political correctness are really just people who have an agenda in highlighting superficial differences in society, and making them important. |
One could argue that the term reverse-racism is actually racist, but anyway I do agree with you on this point.
I have big, big issues with political correctness though. The problem with PC is that it seems like the people who employ it don't even know what's going on. Replacing the word 'negro' with 'African-American' is not the key to stopping racism, although it seems some people are under the impression it is.
I think PC becomes a problem when it falls into the trap of assuming that stereotypes are OK, as long as they are 'positive' stereotypes. Look at the way black Americans are portrayed in many Hollywood movies.
How's this for a point: should somebody be 'proud to be black'. Of course, they should not be ashamed to be black, and yes I understand the history behind that phrase, but these days no-one's really making out that you should be ashamed to be black. So why do we still have people saying they are 'proud to be black'? As if being 'black' really sets you apart from everyone else. That's a pretty obvious example of a kind of racism being encouraged through political correctness.
| nomadjack wrote: | | David you have got to be $£$%^%%$ joking. I just flicked on the Today show to check what was happening with the cricket, but instead watched those intellectual giants Karl Stefanovic and Sarah O'Hare discussing the footage of that Ukranian swimming coach and his daughter attaking each other (O'Hare actually called him a Russian, but hey we're splitting hairs now aren't we?). Karl's closing comment was that 'I'm not sure how they do things where he comes from but we don't do things like that here'. And you think racism and bigotry in the mainstream no longer exists except for 'political correctness'? I bet you won't even recognise it as a racist comment. |
You're right. I won't recognise it as a racist comment. Inappropriate, bigoted even, but racist? Not really.
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