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Proud Pies 
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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member34258
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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Australia do have an agreement with the U.S. that Hicks will not face the death penalty and will serve jail time in Australia.
This has been in place for a long time, so all it needs is for the "trial", a trial where hearsay evidence will be admitted as truth, to be held and a sentence handed down. Latest estimates are for the trial to occur in Jun/July, with a sentence in August/September.
Now just when is that election again? |
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Proud Pies
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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| member34258 wrote: | Australia do have an agreement with the U.S. that Hicks will not face the death penalty and will serve jail time in Australia.
This has been in place for a long time, so all it needs is for the "trial", a trial where hearsay evidence will be admitted as truth, to be held and a sentence handed down. Latest estimates are for the trial to occur in Jun/July, with a sentence in August/September.
Now just when is that election again? |
The election can be called anytime from June 2007 until January 2008, most likely to be held in late October, early November.
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
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~Madness~ 
...The Cat...
Joined: 29 May 2001
Location: Melbourne, Vic, Au
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There seems to be a lot of talk Labor will win the next election. I'm not much into politics, all I know is my work generally goes into upheaval when there is a change in government. lol Mind you, a change would be nice to be honest.
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"whaaa whaaaaaa! |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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Typically Suck Ups
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I am Da Man |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Needless to say, the government now have little excuse for their (in)actions over the past 5 years - it now seems that they had little justification for not trying to release Hicks from Guantanamo earlier.
Still, better late than never.
And let's hope, if he does get tried in Australia and found guilty, he gets life in prison.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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eddiesmith 
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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Why the hell would bringing a terrorist home earn him votes?  |
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Joel 
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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| He won't be tried in Australia afaik. He will be tried by the US but will serve time here if convicted. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| eddiesmith wrote: | | Why the hell would bringing a terrorist home earn him votes? |
Whatever the case, it is obviously an important issue at the moment (why now? I'm not sure), and the general opinion seems to be against Hicks' detainment in Cuba.
While it is a difficult issue on some levels, I think people are having trouble justifying the fact that he hasn't even had a trial. Yes, he is probably the 'scum of the Earth', but even the worst criminals go through the legal system.
What I can't quite understand is why we're making such a big deal about him. If the government has an issue with the detainment of suspected terrorists, shouldn't they be concerned about all the current inmates, not just Hicks? I also sense that people here only care because he's Australian. To me, that fact is irrelevant.
Thanks Joel, I wasn't sure about that one.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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eddiesmith
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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| David wrote: | | eddiesmith wrote: | | Why the hell would bringing a terrorist home earn him votes? |
Whatever the case, it is obviously an important issue at the moment (why now? I'm not sure), and the general opinion seems to be against Hicks' detainment in Cuba.
While it is a difficult issue on some levels, I think people are having trouble justifying the fact that he hasn't even had a trial. Yes, he is probably the 'scum of the Earth', but even the worst criminals go through the legal system.
What I can't quite understand is why we're making such a big deal about him. If the government has an issue with the detainment of suspected terrorists, shouldn't they be concerned about all the current inmates, not just Hicks? I also sense that people here only care because he's Australian. To me, that fact is irrelevant.
Thanks Joel, I wasn't sure about that one. |
General opinion? You mean the opinion of the 1-2% who make themselves heard? Whilst the rest of the people go about their lives quietly and have their say on election day
Terrorists dont deserve rights, anyone in support of killing innocent people whilst out shopping or at work etc are the lowest form of scum and the legal system is what stops alot of people from doing time for the crimes they commit
I dont care how the Americans are treating them over there, for what they were training for they all deserve to be tortured |
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member34258
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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Eddie, I think the "general opinion" you talk about is related to the polling done by professional organizations. And it appears to be running at more than 1-2% in favour of bring Hicks back.
Could you also please tell me where your evidence re : "anyone in support of killing innocent people whilst out shopping or at work" comes from in this case.
As I have stated earlier in this thread, heresay evidence will be admitted as fact in this trial. So using the same trial procedure I could stand up in court and say that I heard that Eddiesmith was organizing a cel to plant a bomb at Optarse Oval. This would then be considered as fact by the judge.
Fair? Justice? Doubtful. |
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bazdaddy
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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Can ya give that a crack anyway probly do us all a favour.
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The black & white jumper, worn by heroes worshipped by millions. |
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eddiesmith
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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| member34258 wrote: | Eddie, I think the "general opinion" you talk about is related to the polling done by professional organizations. And it appears to be running at more than 1-2% in favour of bring Hicks back.
Could you also please tell me where your evidence re : "anyone in support of killing innocent people whilst out shopping or at work" comes from in this case.
As I have stated earlier in this thread, heresay evidence will be admitted as fact in this trial. So using the same trial procedure I could stand up in court and say that I heard that Eddiesmith was organizing a cel to plant a bomb at Optarse Oval. This would then be considered as fact by the judge.
Fair? Justice? Doubtful. |
What polling which asks about 0.001% of the country what they think?
Well thats what the terrorists do which Hicks was training with so I dont see why anyone is in support of him 
Oh as for the last bit, this is Australia, nothing stands up in court, its how people get away with murder and besides <irrelevant abuse deleted> says I love Carlton so why would I want to blow them up?  |
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member34258
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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| Quote: | | What polling which asks about 0.001% of the country what they think? |
Same polling that all political parties listen to when framing laws and policy.
Same polling that makes or breaks TV shows.
It's the world we live in ES.
In no way am I defending Hicks. If he has done wrong then I want justice. My problem is that he has been in jail for 5 years without charge. My problem is he will be tried under court conditions that we would find untenable in Australia, and incidentaly, the Americans would disagree with to such an extent they would mount a military rescue mission if any country tried the same trial rules on one of their citizens.
John Howard has sniffed the political wind. The same wind that has turned him from being a climate change non-believer to a champion of the environment in the last 6 short months. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| eddiesmith wrote: | Terrorists dont deserve rights, anyone in support of killing innocent people whilst out shopping or at work etc are the lowest form of scum and the legal system is what stops alot of people from doing time for the crimes they commit
I dont care how the Americans are treating them over there, for what they were training for they all deserve to be tortured |
The American legal system may or may not be flawed, but you cannot state that the absence of legal process is a superior alternative.
Anyhow, that's what a trial is for. To determine whether or not Hicks really was 'a low form of scum' who was in support of killing innocent people.
You may think this has already been proven, but it is important for the legal process to determine this in the correct way.
I strongly dispute that they deserve to be tortured. I don't believe anybody 'deserves' to be tortured. However, if the US agencies had the ability of gaining information through that process (why else would torture be used?) that is another matter to discuss. Vengeance should be the last thing on any judicial system's mind.
As for community opinion, the very fact that Howard has changed his mind indicates that the detainment of Hicks at Guantanamo is not particularly popular at the moment. Up until this point the Liberal Party has largely been ambivalent to Hicks' situation, and there would be little other reason to change their policies now if it wasn't for the fact that they are concerned about public opinion.
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