BDO in Sydney - WTF!
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| joffa corfe wrote: | | David wrote: | several points about this issue:
1) the bloody media, as usual, make a big deal over a relatively unimportant thing and outrage all the usual people.
2) Someone (I think it was nomad) made a great point: why the hell would you bring an australian flag to the concert anyway? Sure, it might make you feel good if everyone thinks you're patriotic, but you'll probably enjoy yourself a lot more if you just go and enjoy the event.
3) I think it was a great idea to move it off Australia Day. It's like having a birthday on Christmas  |
Not sure what planet your from mate 
You say the media has made a big deal over a relatively unimportant thing "
Thanks mate i guess we can all see now the Flag means nothing to you? |
Nice jump in logic there. I say the media blew the incident out of proportion (which they did), and therefore the flag means nothing to me?
You see, even if this whole story was as outrageous as the media wanted it to be, and originally made it sound, it would still be a debatable issue. However, we have subsequently seen that the BDO organizers have done nothing more terrible than discouraging people from bringing Australian flags to the event. When you hold onto your righteous indignation for a second, it actually makes a lot of sense.
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| What do you really want to ask me? |
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bazdaddy 
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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| nomadjack wrote: | [It's nothing to do with me bothering to understand or acknowledge. Your making excuses, don't say your not because you are. "There are reasons explaining why things happened like they did", that's an excuse if you ask me.]
That's just lame. You said the riots happened because of the attack on Cronulla beach - is this also an excuse or is it a reason why things happened. If your car breaks down because there is no oil in the motor is that a reason for it breaking down or an excuse?
Unlike you, I'm not trying to excuse the actions of either side in this issue. I think both groups involved are absolute morons. But I also think there are REASONS why both groups behaved like they did, and that some of these reasons are deep-seated and structural. If you bothered to try and ask a few questions about what happened you might see this too.
You don't seem to understand what I mean by this so here's a simple analogy for you. What started world war two? Was it just because Germany invaded Poland or were there other more deep-seated issues at stake? Would you call those more deep-seated factors reasons or excuses? |
A group of people, or a world war. A world war is going to have underlying reasons. It's not just a group of people.
A group of people who intimidate and then carry out violent actions deserve no "underlying reasons" for their actions.
The Cronulla riots which was a result of a lot of the above because out of control and in the end a lot of their behaviour was too unacceptable and I am not making excuses for any of that.
Your car breaking down can hardly be compared. If it breaks down tdue to an oil defciancy then yes that is a reason. That doesn't then mean that allows a gorup of people to have reasons for their disturbing actions because of structual incompetentcy's.
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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[A group of people, or a world war. A world war is going to have underlying reasons. It's not just a group of people.]
The concept and the logic behind it is exactly the same thing. Are you saying there can't be underlying factors explaining why families interact in the way they do, or kids in a class room? The magnitude of the event makes no difference.
[A group of people who intimidate and then carry out violent actions deserve no "underlying reasons" for their actions. ]
You seem to be confusing 'excuses' with 'causes', 'explanations' or 'reasons' here Bazdaddy. They are not the same. Underlying reasons or structural explanations for social behaviour aren't things that can be 'deserved' or 'underserved'. How can a reason for something be deserved?
I'm not sure if you understand what I mean by structural factors explaining things? I'm talking about things like the relationship between low education and poverty, low education and racism, unemployment, poverty and crime. These are not 'excuses' for poverty, racism or crime, merely factors which help explain them, and if you think they had nothing to do with Cronulla you are a fool. |
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bazdaddy
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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I do understand what you mean by what you are saying. But I tend too see it more as an excuse than a reason.
Obviously racism and crime had a lot to do with Cronulla. There's heavy racism from both sides. However Poverty shouldn't have anything to do with it. Yes there are certainly significant links between it and criminal activity, that's the case in any form of culture, but personally that's irrelevent to the causes of Cronulla.
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punkologist 
Barwick goals, the pies are home!
Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Location: Level 2 Ponsford Stand
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| Nutmeg wrote: |
Ummmm punkologist, it might be worth reading a comprehensive analysis of the beginning of world war 2 - waving a national flag is not far wrong, just ask the 'native' Germans in the former Sudetenland and (what is now) the western part of Poland...
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Are you for real?
So everything was just fine and dandy. Ohh then someone comes along with a flag and a world war breaks out.
The flag may have been there and waved by those starting the war but it didn't cause the bloody war.
If thats the case then gee we better all change our minds on the national pride issue and put our flags away because world war 3 is imminent with all the flags going around. Might even start at the next one day cricket match.  |
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Nutmeg 
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Preston
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you've missed my point - a flag is a symbol, the waving of it is a symbolic gesture. I didn't say it to be taken literally! Seriously, read up on the causes of ww2
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Collingwood es bueno para siempre
Ellos saben como jugar el juego.... |
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punkologist
Barwick goals, the pies are home!
Joined: 07 Jul 2003
Location: Level 2 Ponsford Stand
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| Nutmeg wrote: | | Seriously, read up on the causes of ww2 |
Commonly Believed Cause of WW2
Three years of mounting international tension - encompassing the Spanish Civil War, the Anschluss (union) of Germany and Austria, Hitler's occupation of the Sudetenland and the invasion of Czechoslovakia - provided the setting for a likely world war.
In March,1939, Hitler demanded that Poland allow Germany to annex the Nazi-dominated free city of Danzig, and that Germany be given control over a 25-mile wide strip of land between Germany and East Germany, created by the Versailles Treaty to give Poland access to the Baltic Sea. Attempts by the Allies to persuade Hitler to negotiate with the Poles were unsuccessful. After signing the Nazi-Soviet Pact, which safeguarded his eastern border, Hitler sent his air and land forces into Poland on September 1, 1939. Warsaw and other Polish cities were bombed.
Britain and France declared war on Germany (September 3) when Germany ignored their demands to cease its attack and withdraw.
Can't see how any of this would be relevant to national flags. Of course they would have been involved, the Nazis would have had their flags everywhere, but it was basically about Germany trying to take control of land and screw Poland from what i can tell (i'm not great with politics). |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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none of these are actual causes punkologist, they are events that happened in the lead up to ww2. The question was not what happened but why? And nationalism, symbolized as nutmeg said, by idiots waving flags in a wave of blind, jingoistic patriotism had everything to do with it.
What allowed Hitler to take power in the first place? What led to Germany's perceived need for 'living space? What led to the rise of ultra-nationalism in Germany? These are the real issues.
Waving a flag didn't start ww2, but the blind, thoughtless, and simplistic patriotism of mass populations, whipped into a frenzy by populist politicians certainly was a key ingredient. |
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Dale61
You can't have manslaughter without laughter.
Joined: 17 Apr 2002
Location: /home/room/chair
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And now, we have this!
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21106203-2,00.html
High school pupils linked to race hate images
| Quote: | | A RACE hate video that glorifies gang rapist Bilal Skaf and boasts about the Cronulla revenge attacks has been linked to students at Granville Boys High in New South Wales. |
| Quote: | | In another scene, a map of Australia is overlaid with the red, white and green of the Lebanese flag and the words "Under new management". |
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Dale61
You can't have manslaughter without laughter.
Joined: 17 Apr 2002
Location: /home/room/chair
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bazdaddy
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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| Dale61 wrote: | And now, we have this!
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21106203-2,00.html
High school pupils linked to race hate images
| Quote: | | A RACE hate video that glorifies gang rapist Bilal Skaf and boasts about the Cronulla revenge attacks has been linked to students at Granville Boys High in New South Wales. |
| Quote: | | In another scene, a map of Australia is overlaid with the red, white and green of the Lebanese flag and the words "Under new management". |
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Why doesn't that surprise me? But we really do have to be tolerant 
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Nutmeg
Joined: 09 May 2005
Location: Preston
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[quote="Tess"] | Nutmeg wrote: | Minority groups have so much power in this country
Same-sex marriages are legal, religious ceremonies other than Christian ones are now national holidays and celebrated and taught in schools, non-Anglo's control the media, the money and the government............ :roll:
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Get your facts right Meggie!
Same Sex marriages are legal are they, friggin numnut rather than nutmeg..... where the **** are they legal in Australia? Same Sex partners are not even considered to be a Defacto couple under Australian Law! They have NO get that I said NO rights as a Couple in Australia. I have to apply to have my Birth Cert changed from M to F in order to get married, so get your facts right.
You "normal" people are so brainwashed by the moral majority, you don't know your arse from your mouth......
Obviously sarcasm is understood by some and not by others - i know it's hard to convey sarcasm in typed posts, but I thought most people got my irony.
thanks nomadjack for explaining things to punkologist - obviously I'm being too subtle in my messages
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Collingwood es bueno para siempre
Ellos saben como jugar el juego.... |
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nomadjack
Joined: 27 Apr 2006
Location: Essendon
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| Tess wrote: | | Pardon.... I just thought I heard someone take three steps backwards! |
Tess, read nutmeg's full post. If you can't see the sarcasm you seriously need to get your eyes tested.
Agree with you Bazdaddy, those scumbags deserve a serious kicking, but no more than the clowns in so-called patriot groups like National Action. Extremists on both sides are little more than ignorant wasters of oxygen. |
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bazdaddy
Joined: 26 Jan 2006
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| nomadjack wrote: | | Tess wrote: | | Pardon.... I just thought I heard someone take three steps backwards! |
Tess, read nutmeg's full post. If you can't see the sarcasm you seriously need to get your eyes tested.
Agree with you Bazdaddy, those scumbags deserve a serious kicking, but no more than the clowns in so-called patriot groups like National Action. Extremists on both sides are little more than ignorant wasters of oxygen. |
I too agree with you on both account there, good too see we can agree on something at least 
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