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d9 tank
Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Location: Victoria
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New breed of ruckmen? Well if all the new ruckmen don't get any hit-outs whats the point of having a ball up?
Mr Burns, sure he is good below his knees, but what does he do well that big men are supposed to do? If we wanted a player who was good down low and had good second and third effort we would recruit a midfielder who would be far more effective than Josh.
Simple fact is the things he is there to do (ruck, provide a forward option and take contested marks) he simply doesn't.
If he can't do any of the aforementioned things this season he will go down as an almighty blunder. This season is it for Josh, make or break and there isn't any excuses left.
Future captain? Lets just see if he can become a decent player as a tall first. |
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Johnson#26
Joined: 18 Dec 2003
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| Fraser will eb a forward. Richards our number one ruckman. Fraser is just handy back up who will take a turn in red time. |
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Joel 
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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| If he can take marks down forward, he would be very handy forward, but like I said, he is going to need to be able to take contested marks regularly. Otherwise, he will be a crumbing talll forward, which isn't what he is there for. I'm hoping that you are right J26. |
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Sultan of spin 
Joined: 31 Aug 2003
Location: Burnley
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| Josh had a far superior season last year than Everitt and Gardiner missed half the season. I remember last year they were taking head to head betting on the brownlow of Goodes Vs Fraser cos they were the 2 standout ruckmen of the season. |
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Johnson#26
Joined: 18 Dec 2003
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| He was the standout ruck of the last half of the season (in 2003). Not the whole season. The problem is with Fraser, is that he hasn't put a whole 22 games together in a season. Unitl he does that, he will have more and more expectations on his shoulders. |
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MarkT
Joined: 07 Aug 2001
Location: Melb
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| Mr Burns 17 wrote: | | Any of you so called Pie fans who bag Josh Fraser can go support Richmond. Do you really watch any football and see how good this bloke is? He is only 22 and will be a future captain of collingwood. I think if Guy Richards can be half the player Fraser is now, then we will be in for some good years. How many big ruckman playing now are good at ground level with second and third efforts like Fraser? Answer. Not many. |
No they are good at ruckwork instead. Meanwhile there are midfielders who are good at ground level. Fraser is a follower. He is not a ruckman. He has won a handful of games in the ruck at best. I can recall one this year against Everitt. there may have been another. I can recall one against a spud by the name of Capuano. The Saints thought so highly of being beaten by Fraser they sacked Capuano.
I rate Josh as a player but not as a ruckman. Rocca is a much better ruckman, Richards is already better. Cam Cloke will be better. Fraser has it all over all these guys around the ground and on the deck. That is a different role though. Fraser is no better than McKee as a ruckman and in fact is far more easily beaten.
PLEASE KEEP FRASER OUT OF THE RUCK MICK! |
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MarkT
Joined: 07 Aug 2001
Location: Melb
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| Johnson#26 wrote: | | He was the standout ruck of the last half of the season (in 2003). Not the whole season. The problem is with Fraser, is that he hasn't put a whole 22 games together in a season. Unitl he does that, he will have more and more expectations on his shoulders. |
Which ruckmen did he beat in the ruck? He was good around the ground. He battled well in the GF but he was murdered in the ruck and that was a pivotal part of the Brisbane domination. |
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3rd degree 
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Location: John Wren's tote
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Don't worry Fraser will keep improving. After eating at Rocca's mum's place he will come out in 2005 more menacing than Clark Keating joined together at the hip with john Iron Monger!
_________________
" Ohhh Banksy and out comes the Note Book".
www.facebook/the hybernators |
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Joel
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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| Sultan of spin wrote: | | Josh had a far superior season last year than Everitt and Gardiner missed half the season. I remember last year they were taking head to head betting on the brownlow of Goodes Vs Fraser cos they were the 2 standout ruckmen of the season. |
Lade is a better ruckman than Josh, and Lade doesn't even ruck full time. Then you have got Freo's talk bloke...can't remember his name for some reason, and Freo's second ruckman, Longmuir often has more success in the ruck (and Freo supporters hate seeing Longmuir in the ruck). Ball at Sydney is better in the ruck. Allan is better at Essendon in the ruck. Stafford is better at Richmond, in the ruck. Darcy at the Bulldogs, is better in the ruck. The list goes on, and on.
The point being, he is a very good player, we are yet to see it on a consisten basis (apart from a few rounds last year), he is great around the ground, but he isn't a midfielder. Like I said, no one is denying his heart, he has plenty of it.
So, back to the first point in the thread, the bloke needs to assert himself next year. He needs to take a stranglehold, and really play some consistent football, and needs to forget about being the 1st ruck. |
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Johnson#26
Joined: 18 Dec 2003
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| Joel - Is Troy Simmonds the guy you were thinking of? |
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Joel
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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| Nah, the seven foot bloke. |
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Daks 
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Location: Melbourne.
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| Joel wrote: | | Nah, the seven foot bloke. |
Aaron Sandilands |
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Joel
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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| Thanks Daks, that's the one. |
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Sultan of spin
Joined: 31 Aug 2003
Location: Burnley
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| Joel wrote: |
So, back to the first point in the thread, the bloke needs to assert himself next year. He needs to take a stranglehold, and really play some consistent football. |
HE WILL & none of the ruckmen you mentioned are even in the same class as Josh |
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Johnson#26
Joined: 18 Dec 2003
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| He has made some inroads each year, but still has a long way to go to be a top class ruckman. |
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