#25 Josh Fraser

Joel · Joined: 23 Mar 1999 Location: Mornington Peninsula

This kid has to start stamping himself on the comp. I like Josh, but I think he can do so much more.

He has been handy the last couple of years, but his influence on games has often been minimal.

Next year, he needs to make a statement.

d9 tank · Joined: 04 Oct 2002 Location: Victoria

No excuses next year. He can't hide behind the excuse of having to be our number one ruck or having to be a key target.

If he can't dominate as the third or fourth tall forward option he never will.

commonwombat · commonwombat Joined: 12 Jul 2003 Location: sydney/s.africa

Josh is another sad victim of the Collingwood Messiah complex where enormous, frequently impossible, expectations are loaded on some talented youngster.

In Josh's case, he has been asked to become something that is beyond his physical capabilities.

He may have height but he lacks, and will always lack, the boby strength to be a top line first ruck. This lack of physical strength/presence also mitigates him being a successful key forward due to his lack of strength in contested marking situations.

He certainly has struggled manfully in these roles and his relative mobility and handling skills certainly do add value.

The moot question is whether he can really perform the role that we require of him namely ruck/key forward. The progress of othe young options lead me to suggest that these roles may be taken by others rather than Josh.

That leaves him with a future of being more a fringe player rather than a prime-mover. The Worlds Tallest HFF ??? Maybe. Certainly not to be thrown out with the rubbish on any old deal, but in future he may be seen as trade bait.

Johnson#26 · Joined: 18 Dec 2003

Yobbo^LuKa · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 1:02 am

I strongly believe Josh Fraser will never live up to the extremely high expectations he was drafted with. He has the potential to be a very good player...Save the champion tag for someone else though.

Johnson#26 · Joined: 18 Dec 2003

I doubt he'll be a champion. We drafted him at pick 1 because he was the tallest player and most mobile player going around. On talent, we may have picked Haselby or Pavlich. We are lucky to have Richards, so then Fraser can play where he plays best - full forward.

sq3 · Joined: 30 Mar 2004 Location: Gold Coast/Tampa

Josh will be a champion at the Pies and hopefully our next captain - as early as 2005.

Josh will be one of the players that will really benefit from a longer break and complete pre season.

We all seem to forget how young Josh is and he was thrown in at the deep end in his first season.

Josh is a natural CHF and not a ruckman - in 2003 he had OP and this year was one of our hamstrung crew (thanks to the ineffective conditioning crew at the Pies).

If he can gain about 5 kgs this off season he will show exactly how he can play and will be a bigger and faster version of Hird.

2005 will be a break out year for Josh and with a fit Pebbles, a bigger C2 at FF and Taz terrorising on the HF line - Pies will be a high scoring team that can really give it a shake with 1 or 2 more players in the trade.

Joel · Joined: 23 Mar 1999 Location: Mornington Peninsula

The problem is, Josh wants to play in the ruck, and doesn't really like ti down forward. I reckon if we keep him down forward, he might do a Paul Salmon.

MarkT · Joined: 07 Aug 2001 Location: Melb

Josh is an ordinary ruckman at bets. He is a very good follower but his actual ruckwork is poor. He has rarely beaten an opponent in the ruck. He is a smart footballer and he can improve. Collingwood must get an A-grade ruck coach. With Richards and Fraser developing as ruckmen, Cam Cloke also probably going to do some ruckwork and Crow, Hall and Travis also in the future mix it would be criminal to not maximise what we can go in the ruck. The problem I see though is it doesn't appear to me that MM rates ruckmen.

In any event, I would be playing Josh in the ruck all that much. Firstly he isn't that good at it, secondly we have alternatives and thirdly he will be ruined by the time he's 27. He isn't big enough and he doesn't jump high enough. As a tall forward with good ground skills he can make a big impact. Next year we will have Rocca, Tarrant and Cam Cloke as tall forwards and hopefully Tom Davidson will be able to show how talented he is. If you throw Josh into the forward line who mans him up and if it is a key tall defender who takes the others?

I'd play him as a forward but with a license to run all over the ground. Let him read the play and use his mobility and dexterity. He isn't a strong mark so there is no point having him stand in the goal square and try and take pack marks. His assets are best used when he can out maneuver his opponent.

Daks · Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Location: Melbourne.

Are we forgetting that Josh did give Peter Everitt a bath? I do agree though, Josh does need to stand up even more than he has been. I expect him to next year.

HAL · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:21 pm

We are just having a little chat. wNo one else expects him to next year.

Daks · Joined: 19 Aug 2003 Location: Melbourne.

I say we bring HAL back to the bored board... he couldn't get much worse. Razz

HAL · Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:33 pm

drfranger · Joined: 11 Mar 2004

the commonwombat was right about the messiah complex

People often forget that big players often don't mature til they are 25 or so. Everitt was the player who had never realised his potential til just a few years ago.

Fraser has everything needed to be a quality forward.

If we can get a one or two high class midfielders to kick it to Josh, Tarrant and Rocca we could be quite formiddable.

Give him time.

Joel · Joined: 23 Mar 1999 Location: Mornington Peninsula