#8 Heritier Lumumba
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Mr Miyagi
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
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| Basically, Lumumba has broken up with the club again. |
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Damien 
Me Noah & Flynn @ the G
Joined: 21 Jan 1999
Location: Croydon Vic
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Where is Jodi Sizer in all this? As a Collingwood Director and Indigenous woman, she could play a very constructive role in resolving this stuff. She should be publicly appealing to these three to sit down with the club and she can facilitate a way forward. She should say to Lamumba to put up or shut up. All he is now doing is trying to further damage our brand.
_________________
'Collingwood are the Bradmans of Football'
The Herald - 1930 |
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Pebbles Rocks
Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Location: Collingwood
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| Haff wrote: | | Fatui Attata wrote: | I refuse to pass judgment on Heritier. Or diagnose him without a single appointment. The only factual thing I know is he is still not happy. So I hope the club continues to reach out and listen to him. And then they can paint us a picture. When there's some form of clarity. But right now, it seems that things have moved nowhere.
The stuff I've read from some posters here is further fuel on the fire. Disgraceful really. |
Agree. People should read up on unconscious bias. There is a lot of that going on here. I don’t like calling him his old name either. Talking about him whinging, lying etc is baseless and doesn’t come from a good place. I do get it, my natural reaction is to not like him and protect the club that we love but we have to be better than that. The bloke clearly experienced racism yet when he calls it out we want to dismiss him and tear him down. We have to be better than this. |
Hi Haff and Fatui Ataata,
The club as provided ample opportunity to sit down and talk. None of us are denying racism occurred nor are we dismissing the impact it may have had.
The point is how you deal with it and that is where we have the problem.
If Heritier wants to go to court because he does not trust the club to do the right thing by him, that is his prerogative and his right. If he is entitled to some compensation then that is also fine. No issues here because racism and bullying are unacceptable.
However, he has been campaigning publicly for several years now on this issue. He has shown zero desire to reconcile with the club.
Lets imagine for a moment he was white and he was bullied terribly. Would you take a different view on how has has approached this issue?
_________________
"You must be a parking ticket, cuz you got fine written all over you" Glen Quagmire |
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WhyPhilWhy?
WhyPhilWhy?
Joined: 09 Oct 2001
Location: Location: Location:
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| Pebbles Rocks wrote: | | Lets imagine for a moment he was white and he was bullied terribly. Would you take a different view on how has has approached this issue? |
If I may, that is a very poor analogy. He is not white and bullying is not anything like systemic racism.
Not any of us that are not black can hope to imagine what its like to be black and discriminated against for that reason alone.
Last edited by WhyPhilWhy? on Thu Apr 14, 2022 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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Yes to me enough is bloody enough. Time for the aggrieved to present facts about their experience and for the club to deal with this in the relevant forum. This continuous smoke from supposed fires is only helping to cloud the issues. FFS, lay it all out on the table and carefully tease out the facts from the fiction. Everyone must commit to ending this saga instead of having it come up like a bad smell every bloody season to stuff up and distract from Collingwood’s footy. I don’t think I’m asking for anything that is difficult to do 🙄 Get the people involved, talk about the situation, investigate the authenticity of the complaints, and if fully confirmed, get to the next stage of the solution. You can’t merely believe something just because a person is accusing the club. Verification is vital for the integrity of the investigation. Everyone has to then move on, especially Lubumba. He has to one day stop instigating stuff that has already being dealt with and then he can go join the United Nations or get lost in a Brazilian jungle and save some precious species that is his want. I for one want this shit to be over and done with so that I don’t need to hear his name mentioned ever again because I’m totally sick of this ongoing soap opera feeding his huge ego for constant bloody attention in the media. 🤬😡 He may want to put himself first for his fifteen minutes of fame but for most, I suspect we want to put the club first. Beyond a joke 😖
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| WhyPhilWhy? wrote: | | Pebbles Rocks wrote: | | Lets imagine for a moment he was white and he was bullied terribly. Would you take a different view on how has has approached this issue? |
If I may, that is a very poor analogy. He is not white and bullying is not anything like systemic racism.
Not any of us that are not black can hope to imagine what its like to be black and discriminated against for that reason alone. |
I do. Discrimination does happen and it is distasteful but at other times the people who scream discrimination have chips on their shoulders and it’s a ploy to play games with authorities and gain financial benefits or whatever. Believe me there are always more than 2 sides to every story and it needs careful analysis to properly investigate the claims and come to the correct conclusion. As a coloured person I have been on both sides of the debate in my life and personally the worst discrimination I endured was from the indigenous community because I treated them the very same as everyone else in the work I was doing as a Social Worker. I wore insults like being called a coconut (brown on the outside but white on the inside) and far worse. It did upset me but I considered their history and let many abusive comments and rank insults go through to the keeper although I was pissed off with them for their attitudes towards me. As many have said this subject is extremely complicated and it cannot be solved or viewed in simplistic terms but I will always know that racism cut both ways, and not only conveniently portrayed for years as always being perpetrated by whites against browns or blacks. That is a load of absolute bloody hogwash.
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Damien wrote: | | Where is Jodi Sizer in all this? As a Collingwood Director and Indigenous woman, she could play a very constructive role in resolving this stuff. She should be publicly appealing to these three to sit down with the club and she can facilitate a way forward. She should say to Lamumba to put up or shut up. All he is now doing is trying to further damage our brand. |
I hope she and the board are taking better advice than this. Worth revisiting this part of the Do Better report in particular:
| Quote: | [The report] found:
• There is a gap between what Collingwood Football Club says it stands for and what it does
• The club is more likely to react to media coverage about a racist incident than complaints made within the club
• Collingwood's response has often been perceived as one where claims of racism are dealt with in terms of damage control and protecting the brand
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If that last approach in any way remains the guiding principle in dealing with situations like this, then we haven't learned anything.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | H does not seem to realise both Eddie and Bucks have departed the Club, and from what i have read,many parts of the Do Better Report has been implemented. Cannot believe hes stiill banging on about this, has he not heard of Tex Walker and the goings on at Hawthorn. ?? To me he cant accept the new regime at Collingwood, the new era, hes an attention seeking dickhead, still trying to remain relevant. Ive lost all time for his antics now,he cant accept being out of the limelight now. |
100% agree - if we all suffered serious psychological harm at the hands of our employers, I know that every one of us would all just move on when our employers published a report about how they're handling things now - because that would just make our psychological harm vanish instantly. You know, just like changing safety practices from next week instantly fixes the bloke whose leg was chopped off by the circular saw last week, no surgery necessary.... |
OH spare me the violin stuff mate, please, H wants to drag the Club to rack and ruin, he wants to break us. Tell me this, he said yrs ago, that fellow players called him an hurtful nickname, starting with the word C, he hated it, yet used the nickname HIMSELF, in his own words, he happily used that nickname he so called hated, to describe himself, in his own bio. So, go figure that one out. BTW i note you only target me here, no body else on this, and they have said worse about him than i have, so whats your agenda here,may i ask. ?? Face facts, we were the only club to do that Do better report, NO other club did, yet look at adelaide and the Hawks now, what does that tell you, hey. WE have a whole new Board, Pres, Coach, assistant coaches, only two players remain from his day, yet hes still pissing and moaning, after we must have apologised profusely a million times. He just wants to drag us down forever, suffers the fact ihes totally irrelevant now, and cant move on, his massive ego tripping wont let him. 
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| Lazza wrote: | | Yes to me enough is bloody enough. Time for the aggrieved to present facts about their experience and for the club to deal with this in the relevant forum. This continuous smoke from supposed fires is only helping to cloud the issues. FFS, lay it all out on the table and carefully tease out the facts from the fiction. Everyone must commit to ending this saga instead of having it come up like a bad smell every bloody season to stuff up and distract from Collingwood’s footy. I don’t think I’m asking for anything that is difficult to do 🙄 Get the people involved, talk about the situation, investigate the authenticity of the complaints, and if fully confirmed, get to the next stage of the solution. You can’t merely believe something just because a person is accusing the club. Verification is vital for the integrity of the investigation. Everyone has to then move on, especially Lubumba. He has to one day stop instigating stuff that has already being dealt with and then he can go join the United Nations or get lost in a Brazilian jungle and save some precious species that is his want. I for one want this shit to be over and done with so that I don’t need to hear his name mentioned ever again because I’m totally sick of this ongoing soap opera feeding his huge ego for constant bloody attention in the media. 🤬😡 He may want to put himself first for his fifteen minutes of fame but for most, I suspect we want to put the club first. Beyond a joke 😖 |
Well said Lazza, and i know you have suffered racist jibes yourself ,many yrs ago. You have summed this up brilliantly, his massive ego just cannot move on, plus a quest for a massive Club financial payment looms large in his endless motivation..
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | Damien wrote: | | Where is Jodi Sizer in all this? As a Collingwood Director and Indigenous woman, she could play a very constructive role in resolving this stuff. She should be publicly appealing to these three to sit down with the club and she can facilitate a way forward. She should say to Lamumba to put up or shut up. All he is now doing is trying to further damage our brand. |
I hope she and the board are taking better advice than this. Worth revisiting this part of the Do Better report in particular:
| Quote: | [The report] found:
• There is a gap between what Collingwood Football Club says it stands for and what it does
• The club is more likely to react to media coverage about a racist incident than complaints made within the club
• Collingwood's response has often been perceived as one where claims of racism are dealt with in terms of damage control and protecting the brand
|
If that last approach in any way remains the guiding principle in dealing with situations like this, then we haven't learned anything. |
I'm pretty sure that, at least for Collingwood, it isn't. The whole point of the report and steps being put in place is to change that approach.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pebbles Rocks
Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Location: Collingwood
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| WhyPhilWhy? wrote: | | Pebbles Rocks wrote: | | Lets imagine for a moment he was white and he was bullied terribly. Would you take a different view on how has has approached this issue? |
If I may, that is a very poor analogy. He is not white and bullying is not anything like systemic racism.
Not any of us that are not black can hope to imagine what its like to be black and discriminated against for that reason alone. |
I cannot imagine what it would be like to be transgender, have dwarfism, have autism, suffered abuse etc either. Emotional damage occurs in many sphere's of life as we should not necessarily accept that someone is entitled to react in whatever way they wish just because they are victims.
Heritier is a victim. I also happen to disagree with his decision making. That does not make me racist or unsympathetic to his experiences.
_________________
"You must be a parking ticket, cuz you got fine written all over you" Glen Quagmire |
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Mr Miyagi
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
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So Ed wants the club to have a “truth-telling session.” Ed, you’re not at the club anymore, and most of today’s players were in primary school when Lumumba played for us. How is dragging everyone who wasn’t at the club and had nothing to do with what happened a decade ago going to compensate and set things right for Lumumba? We’re not Catholics whipping ourselves over original sin ffs. The time for truth telling was when you were Prez, Eddie.
Last edited by Mr Miyagi on Thu Apr 14, 2022 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | | Piesnchess wrote: | | H does not seem to realise both Eddie and Bucks have departed the Club, and from what i have read,many parts of the Do Better Report has been implemented. Cannot believe hes stiill banging on about this, has he not heard of Tex Walker and the goings on at Hawthorn. ?? To me he cant accept the new regime at Collingwood, the new era, hes an attention seeking dickhead, still trying to remain relevant. Ive lost all time for his antics now,he cant accept being out of the limelight now. |
100% agree - if we all suffered serious psychological harm at the hands of our employers, I know that every one of us would all just move on when our employers published a report about how they're handling things now - because that would just make our psychological harm vanish instantly. You know, just like changing safety practices from next week instantly fixes the bloke whose leg was chopped off by the circular saw last week, no surgery necessary.... |
OH spare me the violin stuff mate, please, H wants to drag the Club to rack and ruin, he wants to break us. Tell me this, he said yrs ago, that fellow players called him an hurtful nickname, starting with the word C, he hated it, yet used the nickname HIMSELF, in his own words, he happily used that nickname he so called hated, to describe himself, in his own bio. So, go figure that one out. BTW i note you only target me here, no body else on this, and they have said worse about him than i have, so whats your agenda here,may i ask. ?? Face facts, we were the only club to do that Do better report, NO other club did, yet look at adelaide and the Hawks now, what does that tell you, hey. WE have a whole new Board, Pres, Coach, assistant coaches, only two players remain from his day, yet hes still pissing and moaning, after we must have apologised profusely a million times. He just wants to drag us down forever, suffers the fact ihes totally irrelevant now, and cant move on, his massive ego tripping wont let him. |
I guess you think that was somehow a response to the point I made. It doesn't appear to me, though, that you want to engage in rational conversation about the issue. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Mr Miyagi wrote: | | So Ed wants the club to have a “truth-telling session.” Ed, you’re not at the club anymore, and most of today’s players were in primary school when Lumumba played for us. How is dragging everyone who wasn’t at the club and had nothing to do with what happened a decade ago going to compensate and set things right for Lumumba? We’re not Catholics whipping ourselves over original sin ffs. The time for truth telling was when you were Prez, Eddie. |
Not sure where you got that from – McGuire's comment is basically just in line with what has been proposed previously, that past players including the three in question are encouraged to come to a "session" and speak freely about their experiences. I haven't seen anything to suggest that the audience for that session would involve all current players and staff members (which is not to say that it would be a bad idea or waste of time if they did decide to do that, or that anyone would need to be "dragged" there).
https://wwos.nine.com.au/afl/collingwood-heritier-lumumba-racism-claims-news-eddie-mcguire-responds/a6abc35b-ad7b-4d33-94d1-040232b8d34d
Also, for what it's worth, five of our current senior players played with Lumumba (not two as erroneously claimed elsewhere): the captain, vice-captain, no. 1 ruckman and two other respected senior players. So it's not like any of this is ancient history or irrelevant to the current playing group.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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The Truth Telling process was part of the report and has been designed apparently by experts.
From the Age article previously linked:
| Quote: | Overseen by the expert advisory group, the club has sought input from experts in truth-telling to establish a process where experiences of racism at the club can be shared in a supported, respectful and safe environment and for the club to acknowledge and learn from the harm that has been caused.
“We want to ensure that all Collingwood Football Club people who have been impacted by racism are able to be part of this process.
“The club is committed to ensuring any and all players who have experienced racism benefit from this process and look forward to and welcome their involvement.” |
That doesn't limit it to just past players or just Indigenous or African players.
What's involved?
| Quote: | In the recently completed review of the Do Better report the authors said there were constraints on the truth-telling process.
The authors said it was confined to “apologies and relationship restoration, changing practices and procedures, including training and recruitment and opportunities to speak to the board and executive. It explicitly does not include financial reparations or mediation between truth-tellers and perpetrators. We are advised that these will be developed separately to the truth-telling framework.” |
So again, not saying that financial reparations are off the table, just not part of the Truth Telling process. Get the facts first.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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