#8 Heritier Lumumba
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Mr Miyagi wrote: | | Well if it means it’s now the club’s lawyers talking to his lawyers, and everyone else can get on with footy and living their lives whilst the lawyers sort it out, then it might be a good outcome for all involved. |
It will certainly be a brilliant outcome for the lawyers, whatever happens. |
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Mr Miyagi
Joined: 14 Sep 2018
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| stui magpie wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | Lumumba is a pure narcissist, plain and simple. He has never really been concerned about racism, social equality or any other issue, except in regards to how they can draw attention to himself.
I loved him as a player, but as a human being he is a great disappointment. |
You're one of the very few people I know who could say that and get away with it. |
Yeah I’ll go with Rudey here, I trust his views. I still have empathy for Lumumba due to what happened with his step-father; to find out what he’d done before taking his own life whilst in the pressure cooker of AFL footy would break anyone. He wasn’t the same after that, and LA has changed him. I’m pretty pissed off to be honest he’s latched on to Leon and Kraks — if they’re talking with each other, I don’t know, but it feels opportunistic especially since his whole mission was to get bank at Eddie and Bucks. |
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Pebbles Rocks
Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Location: Collingwood
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Whichever court listens to his grievances on the basis of Collingwood being an unsafe workplace etc, will need to think very carefully about how this could snowball into many many opportunists thinking that they can sue their employers for not protecting them from their colleagues.
None of us are denying there was some racism but the question is whether you choose to participate in the solution or you just cash in on it.
Having a court decide who was right or wrong is pointless. We already know Collingwood (like many others) could have done better.
Rudeboy is on the right track suggesting Heretier is being narcissistic. I would argue that Heretier has a "histrionic personality disorder" which is in the same family of dramatic and erratic behaviours as narcissism.
In a person with histrionic personality disorder, self-esteem depends on the approval of others. People with this disorder have an overwhelming desire to be noticed, and often behave dramatically or inappropriately to get attention.
Personality disorders are usually very difficult to treat so I don't see him changing his ways....
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"You must be a parking ticket, cuz you got fine written all over you" Glen Quagmire |
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Fatui Attata
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
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The number of defensive, offensive, blame filled insulting comments toward Heritier are just the evidence anyone could want to have about how far we have to go. All of these comments are inspired by ignorance and fear. Lazy, shameful and some of the worst assumptions I've come across in a long time. We all just need to keep listening....with respect....and maybe, hopefully one day, we will all understand what we are responsible for here. I doubt it. Embarrassing and destructive.
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I'm not the pheasant plucker I'm the pheasant plucker's son, and I'll be plucking pheasants til the pheasant plucker comes! "Try saying that with a mouthful of peanuts!!" Lou Richards |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^^
@pebbles rocks
You just described my sons current girlfriend and at least 2 of his exes.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pebbles Rocks
Joined: 28 Sep 2008
Location: Collingwood
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| Fatui Attata wrote: | | The number of defensive, offensive, blame filled insulting comments toward Heritier are just the evidence anyone could want to have about how far we have to go. All of these comments are inspired by ignorance and fear. Lazy, shameful and some of the worst assumptions I've come across in a long time. We all just need to keep listening....with respect....and maybe, hopefully one day, we will all understand what we are responsible for here. I doubt it. Embarrassing and destructive. |
Ok rather than smear most of us with the typical response suggesting we are racist, please help us understand how Heritier is approaching this matter constructively? Just because of his colour it does not mean he should be immune from criticism and it does not make the criticism racist.
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"You must be a parking ticket, cuz you got fine written all over you" Glen Quagmire |
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Fatui Attata
Joined: 29 Sep 2009
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I refuse to pass judgment on Heritier. Or diagnose him without a single appointment. The only factual thing I know is he is still not happy. So I hope the club continues to reach out and listen to him. And then they can paint us a picture. When there's some form of clarity. But right now, it seems that things have moved nowhere.
The stuff I've read from some posters here is further fuel on the fire. Disgraceful really.
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I'm not the pheasant plucker I'm the pheasant plucker's son, and I'll be plucking pheasants til the pheasant plucker comes! "Try saying that with a mouthful of peanuts!!" Lou Richards |
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Haff 
Joined: 25 Apr 2016
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| Fatui Attata wrote: | I refuse to pass judgment on Heritier. Or diagnose him without a single appointment. The only factual thing I know is he is still not happy. So I hope the club continues to reach out and listen to him. And then they can paint us a picture. When there's some form of clarity. But right now, it seems that things have moved nowhere.
The stuff I've read from some posters here is further fuel on the fire. Disgraceful really. |
Agree. People should read up on unconscious bias. There is a lot of that going on here. I don’t like calling him his old name either. Talking about him whinging, lying etc is baseless and doesn’t come from a good place. I do get it, my natural reaction is to not like him and protect the club that we love but we have to be better than that. The bloke clearly experienced racism yet when he calls it out we want to dismiss him and tear him down. We have to be better than this.
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The match day thread is for unfiltered BS knee jerk reactions. The time for level headed comment comes after. |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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This is a difficult situation really
If the indigenous boys believe they were racially vilified at any time at the club that’s a major issue
My concern is is this about a apology and moving forward or is the about publicity seeking
Racism of any sort is not tolerable or acceptable
I personally would like to see all 3 players be paid to assist the club in how this doesn’t happen again
If the lawsuit is successful it’s a Pandora’s box for all sporting codes and clubs across the land |
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slangman
Joined: 11 Aug 2003
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| Fatui Attata wrote: | | The number of defensive, offensive, blame filled insulting comments toward Heritier are just the evidence anyone could want to have about how far we have to go. All of these comments are inspired by ignorance and fear. Lazy, shameful and some of the worst assumptions I've come across in a long time. We all just need to keep listening....with respect....and maybe, hopefully one day, we will all understand what we are responsible for here. I doubt it. Embarrassing and destructive. |
As broad a generalisation as one can make.
Posters expressing their views that might be contrary to HL is as important as his ability to express his.
No NBB poster was in the inner sanctum during HL tenure at the club so can only really make assessments on what they read in the media. This makes it neither right or wrong.
A former high profile player in a private setting that I attended last year was asked about HL racism claims. He mentioned that his recollections were vastly different to HL but when pushed, didn’t want to elaborate for fear of a backlash.
Simon Buckley also questioned some HL claims during a twitter argument that subsequently got taken down by both parties.
To assume that everything that HL has claimed as fact is ignorant.
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- Side By Side - |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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In relation to the court case, reported in the Age today
| Quote: | Lumumba filed documents in the Supreme Court in October 2020, suing Collingwood and the AFL and claiming they were liable for “failing to protect him from racism” on what was a generally endorsed writ.
However, the action has become stale after no writ was served within the 12-month time frame. Lumumba’s lawyers could seek leave of the court to extend the period in which he can launch the writ. |
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | This is a difficult situation really
If the indigenous boys believe they were racially vilified at any time at the club that’s a major issue
My concern is is this about a apology and moving forward or is the about publicity seeking
Racism of any sort is not tolerable or acceptable
I personally would like to see all 3 players be paid to assist the club in how this doesn’t happen again
If the lawsuit is successful it’s a Pandora’s box for all sporting codes and clubs across the land |
"If" they "believe" they have been? It’s not like they’ve been ambiguous about describing their experiences. Why don’t we skip the coy wording and start from the point of acknowledging that what happened to them is, indeed, a "major issue"?
On the last part, perhaps that Pandora’s box needs to be opened.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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thesoretoothsayer
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
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Lumumba filed documents in the Supreme Court in October 2020, suing Collingwood and the AFL and claiming they were liable for “failing to protect him from racism” on what was a generally endorsed writ.
However, the action has become stale after no writ was served within the 12-month time frame. Lumumba’s lawyers could seek leave of the court to extend the period in which he can launch the writ.
If you go to trial you may lose and end up with a huge lawyer bill.
On the other hand, if you can pressure the other side to give you a big payout without going to trial you're laughing all the way to the bank. |
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matrix10
Joined: 17 May 2009
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| David wrote: | | matrix10 wrote: | Genuinely interested to know what you would do better (pardon the pun)-
what strategies, processes and policies do you think would be deemed ethical and without self-interest? |
I think a whistleblower policy and restorative disciplinary measures are an absolute must – what's at the core of Lumumba and Krakouer's complaints is not just that they had to endure racial vilification, but that they had no internal means of handling it.
This has to be a more sophisticated mechanism than just some kind of anonymous dob-and-punish exercise like most workplaces have; in a football club in particular, the need for maintaining cohesion and camaraderie is significant. This is something that Lumumba has spoken about in particular; the issue is not just whether a mechanism exists for you to report stuff that's happened to you, but whether you can feel confident that you're not going to be given the cold shoulder by the group if you say anything. Part of that is tied up in how the "offender" is dealt with; there needs to be a way for them to acknowledge, apologise and reconcile.
Really, the process has failed so comprehensively in the past that every stage of it needs to be addressed. Will the player's complaint be taken seriously? Are there mechanisms in place to ensure the player doesn't face career setbacks as a result of speaking up internally? Will the player themselves face internal repercussions if they go public when unhappy with the club's response (as happened to Lumumba)? The article says that we've "initiated work on the recommendation to set up … established whistleblower policies", so I guess we'll have to wait and see what comes of that.
In terms of what Lumumba wants specifically, it's not for me to say. It may be that he wants a more all-encompassing apology, or even some kind of compensation. It may also be that the bridge is burnt, and the club will have to just continue to focus on improving its own policies and accept that he – and Davis, and Krakouer – will never forgive them or want to be associated with them again. Not every sad story has a satisfying ending. |
You raise some salient points- yet I ask you to consider this- remove racism and insert bullying.
The mechanisms and structures you suggest are theoretically solid- yet flawed in practice
You will never be able to create an environment where all people feel valued and comfortable enough to air concerns without fear of blow back.
I would argue, despite best intentions, there is not a single organisation in the world that has managed to implement a perfect system to allow for open and honest feedback and support for all employees.
This is not to say the club cannot strive to ‘do better’ continuously- from what I understand there have been mechanisms set up by the club and also AFL similar to what you suggest.
Some people don’t want to seek help (due to various reasons)
Some people don’t want to resolve a dispute (due to various reasons) |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
You also have instances where people feel genuinely aggrieved but it's all due to their own personality make up and there's no substance to a complaint.
Not saying that is the case here, but I have had to investigate complaints like that, the people didn't take it well when told there was no substance to their complaint.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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