Theoreticals - Home ground advantage

[David]

It cannot be denied that home ground advantage plays a massive part in whether a team wins or not. So, I would like to pose a few theoretical situations, as to see where the advantage lies, and then get other people's views.

Theoretical no.1: Crowd Support
Essendon and Carlton play each other at the MCG, but it is engineered so that 90-95% of the supporters are barracking for Essendon. How much of an advantage would this give them exactly?

Theoretical no.2: Travel factor
Melbourne travels over to WA to play West Coast, but once again the crowd is engineered, this time to make the support in Melbourne's favour, about 60/40. Who wins?

Theoretical no.3: Home Ground familiarity
The Kangaroos start playing home games at the Adelaide Cricket Ground (if I'm correct this was actually considered a couple of years back). After about 10 seasons of playing a couple of games there a year, they come up against the Adelaide Crows, who have never played at that ground before. Assume the crowd is about 50/50. Who wins?

I wonder if there have been any studies into this, as it's pretty interesting to think about. I guess all three factors play a part to some extent, but that does not mean they are all equally important. What are people's views on this?

[Robert Walls (not really)]

Yes, the study is called Near Death Experience.

[David]

Next!

[Cuthbert Collingwood]

1. they both know the G well, the crowd would help essendon a bit
2. WC know their ground very well and no travel involved. crowd factor a small advantage to melb.
3. depends on similarity of grounds, which i don't know. adelaide never playing there you would think would go against them, but the crowd would help a bit.

home ground advantage is completely different to what it was, because now we have to factor in travel as well, which used to be the bus trip to waverley or kardinia park. the crowd don't come into it if you're in control of the game from early on, i think they only help in tight / close encounters, and often can spur on the other team. maybe all melbourne teams should play more interstate games so that they know the grounds better and can get more used to travelling to play.

[sherrife]

Mate i have nothing against you and you seem like a cluey guy but you need better things to do with your time. Go learn a language, work some more hours, pick up a sport, or take latin dancing classes... Just stop thinking about bullshit. Think about the world's problems and try to come up with ideas, instead of blathering on a bit inanely about sport and language and yourself.

I know your here because of ur desperate yearning for a connection with society, but this is not the right place to be looking for that, you need to be with people in REALITY, not over the net. Please think about what you're actually looking for in life and try to make some of it come true, instead of crapping on in blogs and forums endlessly looking for a deep and meaningful conversation in the completely wrong setting.

With honest concern, Omar

[David]

hmm sherriffe I know what you're trying to say but part of working out the world's problems, if indeed that is possible, is trying to understand everything. See my recent thread in the VPT about race, which I think is a good example. Admittedly linguistics and football ground advantages aren't going to change the world but they're interesting enough in their own rights. Unfortunately I can't stop thinking about bullshit, because that's how my mind works. It's made out of bullshit
I know I spend too much time on here but I do have a social life, even if it doesn't seem like it. The trouble is, you just can't talk about serious stuff at school, I'm sure uni next year will be a little bit different, but meaningful conversation seems much of the time to be who can quote Road Trip most. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but do you see what I mean? There has to be some outlet for all this random crap in my head and maybe it's just as well, because if I talked about linguistics in public I'd probably quite rightly have my head shoved down a toilet bowl.

Anyway thanks for your concern and apologies for pissing you off.

[sherrife]

You don't piss me off that wasn't what i was saying at all. i guess i can understand you needing to have d&m's on nicks given that you're still at school and other school age ppl are generally useless... I thought you were a bit older than that... i can barely talk to first years, let alone year 12's, so i really feel for ya.

Anyway, Uni is not going to be better unless you go out there and make it better. It's very easy to do nothing and go to barely any classes and still pass, so the onus is on you to get involved... And you can start doing so now, find something to volunteer with in ur community or learn something new, thats my advice.

Or you could come down to Monash and come to the Den and you will truly experience hours of arguing about artsy bullshit for no real reason at all... I think you'd like it although i have to say i absolutely loved being at ANU last semester and wouldn't blame you if you stayed up there.

[uey]

im with u dave - you are a thinker thats the main thing

for what its worth i reckon:

1. crowd impact on umpiring decisions
2. ground familiarity - an example is the accuracy of home sides, they seem to know where the goals are and know where the wind is. you often dont get time to really look at the sticks under pressure.
3. travel
4. crowd impact on lifting team

[David]

Thanks man. Yeah probably going to the ANU next year, should be good if a little scary...

uey I had wondered in the past if the crowd had much to do with umpiring decisions, it seems to be the case now. They pointed it out in the West Coast Sydney game, when the free kick count was something like 33 - 13.

[perthmagpie]

Nothing wrong with these questions. I have spent time lying in bed wondering how to prove those interstate people how us Vics have no overall advantage in a season's draw because of the travel and home/away game factor. It could be proved simply with stats but would take a long time to work out.

[uey]

[Robert Walls (not really)]

I'm with you too David.

I think you are a top bloke. Look in your examples there is a lot more things to take into Consideration as the game is played 95% b/w the ears.

You would have thought that Geelong would have beaten the Kangeroos in Canberra on the w/e but the Kangers came out like champions. even though they had said it was their last game up there. It certainly meant a lot to the Kangers.

As in NBA games,I think if the opposition team can get in front, it shuts up the home fans. But if the home team gets a run on, the fans tend to dictate the 50/50 decisions for the umpires.

So each experience needs to be taken as its own microcosm of clarity.

[Johnson#26]

Travel and home ground advantage play a factor. And ground familiarity, too.

[pace]

I think obviously home grounds do help, from results.
But i question more the mind set being the biggest problem for most of the games for travel. I think its the regular mind routines that players have changed before an interstate game. Over the years the better teams havent had a problem winning away. I dont think the crowds play a massive part, it can be handy for 5min patches in games here and there but overall could work as a negative too if the home team plays poorly.
Ive always thought the pies play well away from Melb. Particularly in Adelaide and Sydney (lately).
I guess I see it similar to why players can pin point passes on the ground from 30,40 even 50m and yet line them up in front of goals and the mindset changes.
As for the theoreticals couldnt pick.

[David]

so you reckon it's more psychological than anything, pace? Admittedly I didn't even think about it, but that's a good point.