The Silence is killing me.

[Culprit]

Nuxta, we have gone down this track before.

Just today
Israel quoted the Bible today and no doubt we will hear the other side quoting the Koran if they haven’t already. Remove the so called faiths and they would have nothing to fight about.

[sherrife]

Robert Fisk on situation in Lebanon:

[sherrife]

[Culprit]

That may be the case Sherrife, while they preach the bible and Koran and use it to justify killing people I will never see Religeon as a place in our world.

[TurkishPie]

[David]

Been reading the stories with dismay during my stay in Melbourne. While Israel has a duty to protect its citizens, bombing civilians is going way over the top. It should be noted, quite disturbingly, what little control the Lebanese government has over organizations like Hezbollah. Let us hope that (relative) sanity is restored over the next few weeks.

[Pa Marmo]

[TurkishPie]

In the 20' and 30's he used the Christian faith to try to justify his hatred of Jews, saying they crucified Jesus(PBUH) and what not. Just like the hacks who try to justify their attrocities using religion today.

Hitler was a staunch Darwinist, I believe there is a tribute to Darwin in Mein Kampf. The theory of natural selection(ie. survival of the stronger species) provided Hitler with what he perceived to be some sort of scientific justification for his actions.

[London Dave]

[Pa Marmo]

ADOLPH HITLER SAID:
"I am personally convinced of the great power and deep significance of Christianity, and I won't allow any other religion to be promoted. That is why I have turned away from Ludendorff and that is why I reject that book by Rosenberg. It was written by a Protestant. It is not a Party book. It was not written by him as a Party man. The Protestants can be left to argue with him ... As a Catholic I never feel comfortable in the Evangelical Church or its structures. That is why I will have great difficulty if I try to regulate affairs of the Protestant churches. The evangelical people or the Protestants will in any case reject me. But you can be sure: I will protect the rights and freedoms of the churches and not let them be touched, so that you need have no fears about the future of the Church."

Hitler was also ready to discuss with the Bishop his views on the Jewish question: "As for the Jews, I am just carrying on with the same policy which the Catholic church has adopted for fifteen hundred years, when it has regarded the Jews as dangerous and pushed them into ghettos etc., because it knew what the Jews were like. I don't put race above religion, but I do see the danger in the representatives of this race for Church and State, and perhaps I am doing Christianity a great service."

"The Nazi Persecution of the Churches" by J.S. Conway, Pgs. 25, 26 & 162.

[TurkishPie]

I would be interested to know at what stage of his rise to power Hitler made that statements in the first paragraph. He was fisrt and foremost a politician and as we are all aware politiciand will do and say anything a to score votes. A devious politician leading a nominally Christian country like 1930s Germany will make lots of statements appealing to Christians, to maintain popularity.

A book titled Hitler's Table Talk, a collection of records of Hitlers private conversation recorded by his secretary indicates that Hitler had little respect for religion. I can't verify the authenticity of the statements but here are some examples...

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941

"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....
"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....
"Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things." (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday

"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure." (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday

"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity....
"Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....
"...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little....
"Christianity <is> the liar....
"We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State." (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night

"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

21st October, 1941, midday

"Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer....
"The decisive falsification of Jesus' <who he asserts many times was never a Jew> doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation....
"Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the
instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea." (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... <here insults people who believe
transubstantiation>....
"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease." (p 118-119)

14th December, 1941, midday

"Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself....
"Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism,
under a tinsel of metaphysics." (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner

"There is something very unhealthy about Christianity." (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday

"It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie."
"Our epoch in the next 200 years will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold <its demise>." (p 278)

[Pa Marmo]

Read what the press of the Spanish dictator, Franco, published on the 3rd of May, 1945, the day of Hitler's death. It said, "Adolf Hitler, son of the Catholic Church, died while defending Christianity." It goes on to say, "Over his mortal remains stands his victorious moral figure. With the palm of the martyr, God gives Hitler the laurels of Victory."

Hitler himself stated, "I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits. Until now, there has never been anything more grandiose, on the earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic church. I transferred much of this organization into my own party."

"The Nazi Persecution of the Churches" by J.S. Conway, Pgs. 25, 26 & 162.

[TurkishPie]

Nuxta do you agree with the statements made by Franco and his press?

Hitler's honesty is also very questionable. In Mein Kampf he illustrates his views on propaganda..
"To whom should propaganda be addressed? … It must be addressed always and exclusively to the masses… The function of propaganda does not lie in the scientific training of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes, necessities, etc., whose significance is thus for the first time placed within their field of vision. The whole art consists in doing this so skilfully that everyone will be convinced that the fact is real, the process necessary, the necessity correct, etc. But since propaganda is not and cannot be the necessity in itself … its effect for the most part must be aimed at the emotions and only to a very limited degree at the so-called intellect… it's soundness is to be measured exclusively by its effective result". (Main Kampf, Vol 1, Ch 6 and Ch 12)

This is from a speech in the Reichstag on 30 Jan. 1939...
"Amongst the accusations which are directed against Germany in the so called democracies is the charge that the National Socialist State is hostile to religion. In answer to that charge I should like to make before the German people the following solemn declaration:
1. No one in Germany has in the past been persecuted because of his religious views, nor will anyone in the future be so persecuted..."

I personally wouldn't take this guys public announcements seriously.

[Pa Marmo]

If your asking me do I think Hitler was a great christian leader, no I dont. I believe he was the evilest man of our time and worthy of death. Although I am a believer in the Christian faith I am certainly no Catholic either.

[Pa Marmo]