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The Prototype 
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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wasteofspace
Joined: 11 May 2006
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| Tess wrote: |
But my battles are well known, my war is won. |
They are well known because you tell everyone, the true hero doesn't advertise
And judging by the way you constantly attack Joffa because he gets more attention than you, your inner war is far from won
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The armchair critic that does nothing but knock the doers of the world is to be despised as a traitor to evolution |
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sherrife 
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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| Post subject: Re: The homosexual question | |
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| aceofstace wrote: | With it becoming more and more politically correct to tolerate homosexuality let me offer up a different point of view to the tired religious right or tree hugging left standards.
If we look to nature it is obvious that a man woman combination is the only one that produces offspring and therefore is the only valid option for the propogation of the species... right?
Well perhaps not, studies have shown that when laboratory rats are crowded into smaller and smaller living spaces the rate of homosexuality and violence goes up, it seems homosexuality is a safety valve for population control when resources or space is at a premium. While it is too risky for evolution to shut down the sex drive completely, it seems to have found a compromise that ensures the numbers are kept in check.
Now I know this is not going to appeal to gays or non gays but it appears that homosexuality does serve a purpose, albeit a less romantic one than the gays would prefer and less palatable to the morally outraged who point to the bible |
I'm going to quote this because i'm sure we've all forgotten it after all the BS to'ing and fro'ing.
I heard about that study while i was studying psychology last year. Another study has shown that gay males have the strongest connection between the left and right hemispheres, women have second strongest and hetero men have the weakest. Another study showed that gay men also lack a certain protein (i think it was a protein, maybe a cell type) in one part of their brain.
Now the problem with all of this is that it doesn't really tell us anything, merely that there is a physiological difference between homo and heterosexuals. The nature/nurture issue is still very much unresolved and I'm pretty sure it would be unethical to find out one way or another via a controlled experiment as opposed to natural correlational studies.
I personally think the overcrowding hypothesis is flawed because if so we would expect more gay people in the poorer countries rather than somewhere like Australia which is still quite sparsely populated and has plenty of resources (through imports etc., not necessarily naturally but the effect is the same). You have to remember, even though we know that the world is over-populated, the evolution of local ecosystems does not take place based on global trends, and species should only adapt to reflect their local circumstances. Given that Australians are very well off and have plenty of resources there is no real evolutionary reason (there are many environmental ones) for us to begin restraining our population, unless somehow our genes can tell that global warming is about to bite us in the ass.
Instead I think to love and be loved is a basic human need originally related to the need to reproduce but which has since evolved beyond that into more of a social thing. Thus love has become an end in itself, and loving someone of the same sex is just one way of expressing this need to love and be loved as a social requirement of life. Thus being gay is just once aspect of the spectrum of 'normal' behaviour of loving/being loved. I also think that the more openly gay people around the more people likely to decide to express love in that way.
PS. Obviously none of these opinions are anywhere near certain, even in my own mind.
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I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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wasteofspace
Joined: 11 May 2006
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Psychologically love is a projection of our own inner divinity onto our partner, thats why love rarely lasts, eventually that divine image conflicts with the human vehicle being used as a mirror and unconsciously we feel betrayed and go looking for a new partner to project that ideal self on. Not very romantic but true love is actually ignorance of the true self.
There are many things homosexuality could be, if reincarnation is valid then perhaps some leftover karma from the previous life but a different sex still needs to be sorted through?
Every man and woman is both male and female, I personally think homosexuality is a imbalance that is attempting to reorientate itself... but it could be any number of theories
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The armchair critic that does nothing but knock the doers of the world is to be despised as a traitor to evolution |
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sherrife
Victorian Socialists - people before profit
Joined: 18 Apr 2003
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Can i just say ace that you sound like a Buddhist student turned sour. 
Okay I have a few problems with your definition of love.
a) I agree to some extent we love in order to serve ourselves, but i don't agree that we simply love in others what we love about ourselves. Perhaps that plays a part but there are many factors, for example when individuals love things in others that they WISHED they had.
b) I think mature love is not the idolisation of another individual, but rather the acceptance of all that they are and still thinking they are a beautiful and 'good' person (what good means to each person is obviously variable).
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I would be ashamed to admit that I had risen from the ranks. When I rise it will be with the ranks... - Eugene Debs |
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wasteofspace
Joined: 11 May 2006
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The only true love is compassion, adepts that have spent decades honing their mind through meditation achieve an identification with the true self that transcends love, it is a realisation of oneness with all. Our romantic love is a fumbling unconscious effort to achieve that oneness
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The armchair critic that does nothing but knock the doers of the world is to be despised as a traitor to evolution |
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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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Greater love hath no man than he lay down his life for his friends.
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Genesis 1:1 |
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wasteofspace
Joined: 11 May 2006
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| sherrife wrote: | | Can i just say ace that you sound like a Buddhist student turned sour. |
Buddhism like any other religion has an exoteric outer shell for the simple folk that just need good values and guidance in life, and there is the esoteric inner core that is the reserve of those who are ready for the greater mysteries of life... having said that I have never been a buddhist or studied eastern mysticism, all that transcending desire leaves me cold, the western mystery tradition embraces desire as the lessons of karma
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The armchair critic that does nothing but knock the doers of the world is to be despised as a traitor to evolution |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| aceofstace wrote: | | The wise man knows he knows nothing Dave |
one of my favourite quotes ace... very apt too.
On the recent discussion, I believe everything we do is for selfish reasons. We only do what we do because we want to be happy. I believe that those who mess up in life only look for short-term happiness instead of thinking long-term as well. Fitting this in with the concept of love... I believe for me personally, and this is the case for many, that long-lasting mutual love is the highest thing that one can attain, in terms of happiness. The excellent film Scenes from a Marriage by Ingmar Bergman contests that all love is doomed to die. I have to disagree with this point, because I think that a great deal of love does die, but it is simply because one or both people do not have the right personality type or attitude to make it work. I often fear that this may be a problem I suffer from. I looked up love on urban dictionary, and one of the entries read "nature's way of tricking people into having sex and thus reproducing". This somewhat cynical view may make a lot of sense, but I believe love is one of the things that makes us human as opposed to animals. I believe true love (romantically) should be much the same as that between a mother and a child, or very close friends. If this is the case, then love is certainly more than just a method for making people want to have sex and reproduce.
Re-reading this, it barely makes sense... but anyway you can take from it what you like.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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wasteofspace
Joined: 11 May 2006
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Ingmar Bergman was right Dave, he realised that love is our unconscious attempt to identify with the divine but is ultimately doomed because it cant be done without a conscious effort, ie: the mystical path
All great art is the concretion of spiritual principles which by their intrinsic nature defy language, so the master artist must speak through images, symbology and allegory
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The armchair critic that does nothing but knock the doers of the world is to be despised as a traitor to evolution |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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aceofstace, Bergman was an atheist so I doubt he had any opinion on the 'divine' or anything of that kind.
Your last sentence sounds like something out of the Da vinci code 
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Thanks for the English lesson, ALICE how did you know. |
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wasteofspace
Joined: 11 May 2006
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| David from Canberra wrote: | aceofstace, Bergman was an atheist so I doubt he had any opinion on the 'divine' or anything of that kind.
Your last sentence sounds like something out of the Da vinci code |
A concept of the absolute can be construed as atheism, in fact the great unmanifest lends itself to nihilism also
"That rug really tied the room together" ...the dude
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The armchair critic that does nothing but knock the doers of the world is to be despised as a traitor to evolution |
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Proud Pies 
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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| Quote: | | The excellent film Scenes from a Marriage by Ingmar Bergman contests that all love is doomed to die. I have to disagree with this point, because I think that a great deal of love does die, but it is simply because one or both people do not have the right personality type or attitude to make it work. I often fear that this may be a problem I suffer from. |
Dave, correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that your only very young. I think I read that your not 18 yet? or was it your not 20 yet?
You think you should have found true everlasting love by now? Some people never find it. Some people settle and some still don't find it until much later in life.....I don't believe that at your age there is anything to worry about. How do you know at your young age that you don't have the right personality or attitude to make it work?
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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PP you're right I'm only 17. I guess maybe I worry about things too much, I guess just never having had a girlfriend and doubting my ability to be worthwhile enough for a girl to worry about, causes a bit of angst  but you're right there's plenty of time left.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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