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TurkishPie
Joined: 06 Sep 2005
Location: Abbotsford
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| aceofstace wrote: | | Christianity Muslim whatever, just another excuse to bilk the ignorant or inflame them to war under the most ridiculous of all premises... that god wants them to |
Can you back your argument with theological evidence? |
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KYPREO 
Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne
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| Miz wrote: | | all Jews are Isreali ...which is of course a long way from the truth. |
Glad you brought up this one, because it's the best example to support my case.
Being Israeli is based on statehood, but that statehood was founded on the religion of its occupiers. The national language, Modern Hebrew, is a reconstruction of biblical Hebrew carried down by religious practice of Jews. Israel as a nation necessarily refers to being Jewish. Being a Jew, having Israeli nationality and being of the Hebrew race are necessarily the same thing. There are Christian and Muslim inhabitants within the territority of Israel, but do they call themselves Israeli and do they speak Hebrew as a first language? The flag is a star of david!
Persecution of the Jews was highly racial. The Nazis had it down to a science. They thought they could determine a Jew by the proportion of their heads and the size of their nose. As a science this is, of course, all nonsense, because Jews had inhabited parts of Europe for generations, intermarried etc, but under what I understand to be Jewish law, their religion was passed down on the side of the mother, so most Jews would claim to be from the Hebrew race at least on their mother's side. (note - I do understand you can convert to judaism).
It wasn't just the Nazis. The rest of Europe had it in for the Jews, viewing them as a foreign race, who in history was depicted, amongst other things, as the crooked nose man with the money bag.
That's why it is anti-semitism, not anti-judaism, referring to the Semitic race of which almost all Jews are descendant.
The idea of race and religion being discrete is valid in the context of Western European societies reflecting upon themselves, but Western Europeans still form a strong association, at least on a subconscious level, Islam and the Orient. Its an association rooted deep in our history - it is not just a recent one.
I'm not saying that race and religion ARE the same thing. However, religious vilification frequently takes a form which has a strong racial element to it. Bagging someone for believing Jesus is our Lord and Saviour or not hiring someone because they are Hindu is an example where there may be no racial element, and is simply discrimination or vilification on the basis of religion. But Islamophobia is abuot more than religion - it's a modern manifestation of a deep-rooted historical fear of "Orientals" dating back to the Arab and Ottoman raids on Europe and probably earlier to the Crusades.
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Go Pies!!! |
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wasteofspace
Joined: 11 May 2006
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| nuxta wrote: | | Polemic is the art or practice of inciting disputation or causing controversy |
I thought it was that eating disorder where you binge and purge
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The armchair critic that does nothing but knock the doers of the world is to be despised as a traitor to evolution |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Is it the only one? |
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