Madonna
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wasteofspace
Joined: 11 May 2006
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| Tess wrote: | | aceofstace wrote: | | Did he write a symphony at the age of 4? because genius is a big word to be bandied about when giants have walked the earth |
So unless a musician wrote a piece of Classical Pap without poetic words scattered throughout it's rubbish is it.... What a load of exclusive claptrap.
How many times have the Classical set stood up when the world needed help?
Throughout the history of Popular Music the biggest most popular artists have donated their time and money for worthy causes.
From Goerge Harrisons concert for Bangladesh to the Bee Gees 79 UNICEF Concert to Bob Geldofs Band Aid. These artists have given to the world more than a bunch of uptight musicians who require Government assistance to survive. |
For the last time Tess, your own musicians call it crap, they aspire to breaking away from the recording studio and not having to cater to soft drink companies and 12 year olds, session musos know its crap, pop bands know its crap, seems like you are the only one that didn't get the memo
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thesleepysupporter 
Joined: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Cheltenham
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| aceofstace wrote: | | please dont call pop music great art or its sad set of drugged out losers genius |
Jimmi Hendrix, John Coltrane, Jimmy Page, Bob Marley, Peter Tosh, Michael Hutchence, Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, Janis Joplin, Sid Vicious, John Lennon...well all of the Beatles...
Drugs or Genius? probably a bit of both.
Just because they aren't writing piano concerto's doesn't mean they aren't genius's in their own right.
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| aceofstace wrote: | | Proud Pies wrote: | | geeze this thread has disintegrated ....... |
The very first post by David was "I really hate Madonna"
So how is it possible to disintegrate further from that point? |
It's not that bad PP, it's been a pretty decent debate so far, haven't seen any cheap shots or name-calling. Ace I'm disappointed more people don't agree with me, I guess I'll just have to hate Madonna all by myself 
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Dr Alf Andrews 
Fitzroy Victoria Bowling Club
Joined: 20 Oct 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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| David from Canberra wrote: | | magpie greg wrote: | | What did she do wrong? |
well for one thing "crucifying" herself? One can only assume that she is equating herself with Jesus. I might be wrong of course, but I can't see what else she was trying to express there. Wouldn't be surprised though, as from hearing her interviewed in the past she comes across as incredibly egotistical. Also the thing with comparing Bush and Blair to Hitler, Bin Laden and Mugabe is pretty silly. (OK there's people here who would agree with her view but I think even so you have to admit it's going just a little over the top). |
There' is nothing "over the top" about comparing George Bush to Hitler. The only difference is that one hated the Jews and the other crawls up their arses. They are/were both murderous war criminals responsible for the deaths of a massive number of people.
As for the "crucifixion" stuff, Madonna has always used religious imagery in her music and performance. "Like A Virgin" ... "Like A Prayer" ... even the name, Madonna. She's been doing the religious imagery thing for her entire career. All she's done now, apparently, is upgrade herself from the mother of Christ to Christ himself.
It's all good fun, I'm sure. I'd probably do the same thing if I was in her position.
It's showbiz, mate ... lighten up a bit.
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Dr Alf Andrews
Fitzroy Victoria Bowling Club
Joined: 20 Oct 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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aceofstace,
Shouldn't you be practicing your scales? Spending all this time on the internet is valuable time that could be better spent practicing up for your next Rachmaninov recital.
You should get a really nice reverb in that empty concert hall 
You are the classic example of what is known as a "musical snob".
Sure, Mozart could string a few good notes together ... but from all reports he was a complete tosser all the same.
And people who spend their days laboriously learning to play note-for-note renditions of music composed several hundred years ago have long ago been rendered redundant by technology.
I can teach my computer to play Beethoven ... probably a lot better than Beethoven could have played Beethoven ... especially seeing as he was as deaf as a post.
I agree ... most popular music is crap. Always has been. Always will be.
Most of it is here today and (thankfully) gone tomorrow.
But the stuff that endures for years ... decades ... centuries ... is the stuff that has somehow touched the lives of people ... at some level. Whether it be Mozart, Beethoven or the Beach Boys. It's all great music.
Great music is not about how many notes you can play in a given period of time. It's not about how technically proficient you are in playing your instrument. It's not about how complex your harmonies are or whether you can play a B-flat dim7+9sus4 over a G bass.
Great music is about your ability to move people, physically, spiritually, emotionally, whatever ... your ability to evoke a feeling ... your ability to make people laugh ... or make them cry ... or make them dance.
And you can get that from a Beethoven sonata ... you can get that from a Bach prelude and fugue ... you can get it from a 3-chord country and western song ... and you can get it from a packaged pop song.
It takes genius to really move people at a deep level ... and Madonna's music has moved me at times.
I rate "Like A Prayer" as one of the best songs I've ever heard. It actually bring tears to my eyes sometimes ... and all it is is some silly song that uses religious imagery to describe sex. But it is indescribably beautiful in the way it is put together. Perfect song. Perfectly sung ... with perfect production.
Sheer genius.
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Line and Length ... Line and Length ... Line and Length |
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Dr Alf Andrews
Fitzroy Victoria Bowling Club
Joined: 20 Oct 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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| aceofstace wrote: |
For the last time Tess, your own musicians call it crap, they aspire to breaking away from the recording studio and not having to cater to soft drink companies and 12 year olds, session musos know its crap, pop bands know its crap, seems like you are the only one that didn't get the memo |
Session musicians are just hacks and journeymen anyway. Many of them don't have a creative bone in their bodies. They're just people who can play their instrument. Just like a tradesman can play with his tool. Who gives a flying f*** what they think?
And, in any case, who appointed you as their spokesperson?
Any nerd can pick up an instrument and spend 16 hours a day learning how to play rip-offs of the all-time greats. All it means is they've got nothing better to do with their lives.
Give me a computer and a good sequencing program any day ... bugger paying those mercenary twats to tamper with my music.
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Dr Alf Andrews wrote: | It takes genius to really move people at a deep level ... and Madonna's music has moved me at times....
....But it is indescribably beautiful in the way it is put together. Perfect song. Perfectly sung ... with perfect production.
Sheer genius. |
For me, it's "And All That Could Have Been" by Nine Inch Nails. Not many people would have heard it, but the descriptions you've used Alf fit it perfectly. Very moving song, and excellently constructed as well. Reznor verges on genius, as he writes all the parts for his songs, then records himself performing each instrument (using computers to overlay the different tracks over each other). And the result is awesome.
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Proud Pies 
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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| David from Canberra wrote: | | Dr Alf Andrews wrote: | It takes genius to really move people at a deep level ... and Madonna's music has moved me at times....
....But it is indescribably beautiful in the way it is put together. Perfect song. Perfectly sung ... with perfect production.
Sheer genius. |
For me, it's "And All That Could Have Been" by Nine Inch Nails. Not many people would have heard it, but the descriptions you've used Alf fit it perfectly. Very moving song, and excellently constructed as well. Reznor verges on genius, as he writes all the parts for his songs, then records himself performing each instrument (using computers to overlay the different tracks over each other). And the result is awesome. |
Well, there you go, and in response to your original post...... I hate, really really hate Nine Inch Nails.
Now, how silly does that sound when I've never actually taken the time to sit and listen to their music.
I hate, really hate new type of R&B........it doesn't have the soul of the original R&B and Blues....but then again......see above comment
Each to their own
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wasteofspace
Joined: 11 May 2006
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| Dr Alf Andrews wrote: | aceofstace,
I rate "Like A Prayer" as one of the best songs I've ever heard. It actually bring tears to my eyes sometimes ... and all it is is some silly song that uses religious imagery to describe sex. But it is indescribably beautiful in the way it is put together. Perfect song. Perfectly sung ... with perfect production.
Sheer genius. |
Ok, thats just sad, Pepsi got their money out of you, rubbish song, contrived to be controversial, shallow emotionally (like the singer) pre packaged and spoon fed to spotty teens
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The armchair critic that does nothing but knock the doers of the world is to be despised as a traitor to evolution |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Proud Pies wrote: | | David from Canberra wrote: | | Dr Alf Andrews wrote: | It takes genius to really move people at a deep level ... and Madonna's music has moved me at times....
....But it is indescribably beautiful in the way it is put together. Perfect song. Perfectly sung ... with perfect production.
Sheer genius. |
For me, it's "And All That Could Have Been" by Nine Inch Nails. Not many people would have heard it, but the descriptions you've used Alf fit it perfectly. Very moving song, and excellently constructed as well. Reznor verges on genius, as he writes all the parts for his songs, then records himself performing each instrument (using computers to overlay the different tracks over each other). And the result is awesome. |
Well, there you go, and in response to your original post...... I hate, really really hate Nine Inch Nails.
Now, how silly does that sound when I've never actually taken the time to sit and listen to their music.
I hate, really hate new type of R&B........it doesn't have the soul of the original R&B and Blues....but then again......see above comment
Each to their own |
I agree I hate R&B too  but it's sort of different. You can say you hate a band or whatever for the music, to be honest I don't really have an opinion on Madonna's music, I've never bothered to listen. It's Madonna the person I dislike. Intensely.
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Proud Pies
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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| David from Canberra wrote: | | Proud Pies wrote: | | David from Canberra wrote: | | Dr Alf Andrews wrote: | It takes genius to really move people at a deep level ... and Madonna's music has moved me at times....
....But it is indescribably beautiful in the way it is put together. Perfect song. Perfectly sung ... with perfect production.
Sheer genius. |
For me, it's "And All That Could Have Been" by Nine Inch Nails. Not many people would have heard it, but the descriptions you've used Alf fit it perfectly. Very moving song, and excellently constructed as well. Reznor verges on genius, as he writes all the parts for his songs, then records himself performing each instrument (using computers to overlay the different tracks over each other). And the result is awesome. |
Well, there you go, and in response to your original post...... I hate, really really hate Nine Inch Nails.
Now, how silly does that sound when I've never actually taken the time to sit and listen to their music.
I hate, really hate new type of R&B........it doesn't have the soul of the original R&B and Blues....but then again......see above comment
Each to their own |
I agree I hate R&B too but it's sort of different. You can say you hate a band or whatever for the music, to be honest I don't really have an opinion on Madonna's music, I've never bothered to listen. It's Madonna the person I dislike. Intensely. |
I'm sorry, but you don't actually know Madonna the person do you? You know the 'media version of Madonna' only. She's playing a part, just like actors in a movie.
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
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Proud Pies
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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hmmmmm double post?
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond
Last edited by Proud Pies on Wed May 24, 2006 5:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dr Alf Andrews
Fitzroy Victoria Bowling Club
Joined: 20 Oct 2001
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
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| aceofstace wrote: | | Dr Alf Andrews wrote: | aceofstace,
I rate "Like A Prayer" as one of the best songs I've ever heard. It actually bring tears to my eyes sometimes ... and all it is is some silly song that uses religious imagery to describe sex. But it is indescribably beautiful in the way it is put together. Perfect song. Perfectly sung ... with perfect production.
Sheer genius. |
Ok, thats just sad, Pepsi got their money out of you, rubbish song, contrived to be controversial, shallow emotionally (like the singer) pre packaged and spoon fed to spotty teens |
Pepsi got stuff-all out of me. I don't touch the stuff.
And it's a long time since I've been a "spotty teen".
"Shallow emotionally (like the singer) ... "
Are you saying my emotions are shallow because I like that song? Or that Madonna's emotions are shallow?
Do you know me personally?
Do you know Madonna personally?
On what basis do you make these claims?
"Contrived to be controversial" ... what's controversial about it? Was there a controversy? I wasn't even aware of the song until many years after it was a hit. In fact I wasn't even a fan of Madonna until I bought "The Immaculate Collection" some time in the 90s. Until then I'd written her off as emotionally shallow, pre-packaged and contrived. But that's only because I'd never really listened to her. That's called "contempt prior to investigation". And it's sad.
But what's really sad is the way you have set yourself up as the arbiter of what constitutes "rubbish".
Ever heard of the saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"?
Or is that too shallow for you?
_________________
Line and Length ... Line and Length ... Line and Length |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Proud Pies wrote: | | David from Canberra wrote: | | Proud Pies wrote: | | David from Canberra wrote: | | Dr Alf Andrews wrote: | It takes genius to really move people at a deep level ... and Madonna's music has moved me at times....
....But it is indescribably beautiful in the way it is put together. Perfect song. Perfectly sung ... with perfect production.
Sheer genius. |
For me, it's "And All That Could Have Been" by Nine Inch Nails. Not many people would have heard it, but the descriptions you've used Alf fit it perfectly. Very moving song, and excellently constructed as well. Reznor verges on genius, as he writes all the parts for his songs, then records himself performing each instrument (using computers to overlay the different tracks over each other). And the result is awesome. |
Well, there you go, and in response to your original post...... I hate, really really hate Nine Inch Nails.
Now, how silly does that sound when I've never actually taken the time to sit and listen to their music.
I hate, really hate new type of R&B........it doesn't have the soul of the original R&B and Blues....but then again......see above comment
Each to their own |
I agree I hate R&B too but it's sort of different. You can say you hate a band or whatever for the music, to be honest I don't really have an opinion on Madonna's music, I've never bothered to listen. It's Madonna the person I dislike. Intensely. |
I'm sorry, but you don't actually know Madonna the person do you? You know the 'media version of Madonna' only. She's playing a part, just like actors in a movie. |
Well I guess so, but in that case I guess we must refrain from making character judgements of any celebrities or anybody really, who we do not know personally. Actually to be honest making character judgements is probably unecessary anyway. All I can say is, the person that she appears to be, from interviews etc. is not the sort of person I'd give the time of day. If there's anything that's a turn-off, it's arrogance, and she comes across as very arrogant.
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