Prison for holocaust denier

[David]

Neil Mitchell, "Ratbag now a martyr"

http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,18239674%255E5000106,00.html

well I read this in the newspaper today, and Dr. Alf has made reference to it in the Andrew Bolt thread. While I feel strongly against those who have persecuted or attacked Jews, and those who still do so today, I think jailing someone for expressing a viewpoint is not only going too far, it is completely wrong. I have never understood holocaust deniers (I mean how much proof do they need that it happened) but when the judges start telling people which way they should think, and that some opinions are 'wrong' I think there are big problems.

[Dr Alf Andrews]

Have you heard the one about the Jew and the Iranian fundamentalist in the Crocodile Dundee hat?

Well, you see ... this Jew and this Iranian fundamentalist in a Crocodile Dundee hat are having a political argument and the Jew is having a good old Jewish whinge about the Nazis and the holocaust ... as Jews tend to do.

Then the Iranian fundamentalist in the Crocodile Dundee hat says:

"Holocaust? You call THAT a holocaust?"

He reaches into his pocket, pulls out a nuclear missile, aims it directly at Israel and says:

"Now that's a holocaust."

[David]

not really funny, mainly because it's so true.
There's nothing an Iranian fundametalist could wish for more than the brutal slaughter of every Jew on the planet....

[Culprit]

I think its so funny that they lock up a historian they dont' like because he is pro hitler, yet hitler was born in that country

[London Dave]

True culprit, a country that needs to build up it's 'anti_Nazi' points after electing bigots like Haider. A scapegoat should do nicely!

[Nutmeg]

These laws were brought in to stop the obfuscation of history to suit personal purposes - also as part of the 'de-nazification' process that was introduced when the Allies controlled Deutschland after 1945. Nazism wasn't just an aberration in a few people in a particular country, it was a way of life for many Germans (see the behaviour of the young teenagers in the Hitler Jugend (youth) who tried to fight to the end and maintained faith in 'der Fuehrer' even as the Soviet Army closed in on Berlin). It's hard to brainwash people back.....
It's not a question of opinion - it's a type of propaganda........

[David]

I think nazi germany is a great example of how most people will accept whatever they're told without question. I think its fair to make the logical step that what we believe in is strongly moulded by others. We have to try our best to work things out for ourselves and pay little heed to others' points of view, even if they are very persuasive.

[Cam]

its all a bit silly really. like owning a copy of "Triumph Of The Will" which will get you jailed in 15 countries.

[London Dave]

[eddies bank balance]

[David]

Despite its politics, Triumph of the Will is still highly regarded as one of the great early landmark films, despite it being a propaganda piece for Hitler. A lot like Birth of a Nation was for the KKK. So I think it is shameful that the film would be banned.

EBB, how can we think for ourselves? We should be careful to not accept everything we hear from newspapers. We should try to hear both sides of the story. We should be skeptical about people trying to convince of us a point, no matter how charismatic they are. This is how Hitler became leader of Germany, he basically used exciting speech to get people interested, built on the anti-semitism that was so rampant in Europe at the time, and so 'brainwashed' a lot of people. I don't know, maybe it is impossible to truly think for yourself without taking in others' opinions. But we can at least try.

[Nutmeg]

Let's never forget that Hitler and the Nazi Party never actually achieved a majority in the Reichstag - they did NOT come to power legally, but played on (among other things) a serious flaw in the German Constitution (that allowed Hindenburg to dissolve parliament whenever he saw fit), personal vendettas at the highest end, Hindenburg's failing health and a morbid fear of the Communist party. Even parties that were on the left of the political spectrum were more fearful of a Soviet-style revolution than they were of the Nazis. (all non-communist European leaders all preferred Hitler)

Propaganda exists everywhere now (children overboard anyone??), the difference now is, we don't have a political portfolio called propaganda (Goebbels was the minister for "propaganda and public enlightenment") - so what is worse? Calling a spade a pitchfork and telling everyone that you're doing it, or merely denying that you ever knew what a spade was?

[Dr Alf Andrews]

[Dr Alf Andrews]

[David]

you can't say that all the propaganda is coming from the right side of politics. There is as much propaganda on the left, Michael Moore is the obvious example but he is far from the only one.