possible trade???

[Rohan Coventry Tateson]

Spider Vs Rocca

Collingwood desperately needs a ruckman and a key defender. In order to get these types of players we are going to have to away something of value.

If Everitt is keen to move we should go after him. He is the perfect foil for Josh as he can swap into the forward line and damage opposition defenders. Is one of the rare breed of ruckman that can kick goals (i.e. Matty Allen).

There is question mark on his character but a change of club would do him good. St Kilda’s administration is a joke and there is an unhealthy culture about the place. You don’t have to be a rocket to work out why he has played up there. Put him in a new environment under a good coach, a stable administration (there you go Mike) and a club that is on the rise and it will be a win/win situation for the club and Spider.

He is around 27 and this is around the peak age of a ruckman. Sure he may be a short-term proposition (3 –4 years) but with Richards being groomed as a potential replacement in the future, he is a good option.

It brings the question of who are we going to swap for him? Judkins has ruled out exchanging the first draft pick for players so it counts that out. The only player I could see as a potential swap is Rocca.

Rocca is an interesting one. He is 23 and has been around AFL circles for 5 years. He is the biggest tease in the side, he can tear games apart but he can also look second rate. I liken him to a Scotty Lucas as he can turn it on but at the same time can go missing. The main criticism I have of Rocca is that he isn’t a consistent player.

He is also exposed aerobically on the ball or by defenders that run off him.

Malthouse loves him. He comments on how he is one of the hardest working players at the club and is undeserving of the media attention/criticism he receives.

But the question is he more valuable to the side than an influential ruckman who can also play forward and kick goals. I would rather have the latter, as I believe a ruckman of note is the difference between us being a middle of the ladder side and being a top side.

A lot depends on his last four games. If he can contribute and help the side to a finals berth he should be retained. If he fails to make an impact, the same old questions such as he goes missing when the pressure is on will reappear and as a consequence is definitely tradable for spider.


In Skob We Trust

[Rohan Coventry Tateson]

I totally agree with what you say Nick.

I think there is a bit of difference between Lane and Rocca. Lane has made a habit of playing well in the last rounds of the season after doing nothing for the majority of the season. He did this last year and therefore if he does it again (which I suspect) he should be delisted or exchanged.

The main reason why Rocca should be judged on the last four weeks is that he has a question mark over his head that he goes missing in crunch times. Surely these four weeks coming up are a time for him to make a stand in a "make or break" time for the side. If he goes missing it is a case of the "same old" or usual for Rocca and questions about his future at Collingwood have to be asked.

Who cracked the ton in the footy tipping?

In Skob We Trust

[JLC]

No way should you get Spider Everitt. You should look at the character of the player and the effect they will have on your club as a whole. For this reason i would not get Spider Everitt as i think he would only rock the boat. Why is it every time Anthony plays a bad game everyone bags the guy. Its just pathetic really. I think there are plenty of others who should be questioned before Anthony Rocca. Fire up Pebbles and prove the critics wrong

APA

EVERYONE IS A COLLINGWOOD SUPPORTER ITS JUST THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE IN DENIAL

[Spongo]

I mostly agree with RCT.

The exceptions are that Waklein and Rocca are safe. Wakelin because he provides a experiebced defender who can run, and rocca becuase oppositions can not man up on rocca tarrant and molloy all at once(except richmond) and he is a good crash ruckman.

Kinnear is not gone but he is not safe either.

I don;t think we will be all that active in the trades this year. All we have to do is waiut for these players to develop experience, and that only comes with time. Remember that Essendons good players are all well over twenty five. We would be lucky to have 5 players who are over 25.


I think adkins and rintoul are not so safe, especially adkins. Burns I think is definetly gone. I agree with most of your probably gones except wakelin, and i think betheras is essential to our team winning, not everybody can be a receiver, someone has to go get the bloody thing out of the packs!

[ash]

I've had enough of this shite that I can take. Trade Rocca ARE you guys insane!!!
Q) How many players can mark and kick goals from 60M. Lets try and name them shall we.
A) Grahame, Sav Rocca, and maybe to certain extent Ottens, Robran and Lucas.
Q) How many gun Ruckmen are there.
A) Everitt, McDonald, Allen, Barnes, Rehn, McKernan (spelling with just about all of those names), and the list goes on.

My piont.
Other clubs will love to have a Rocca in their side because he is one of a kind. NEWS FLASH. There are alot of gun ruckmen around. We'll even have one in about 4 years and he is called Josh Fraser.

Yes we need another ruck, yes I'd love Everitt in the team but Rocca is untouchable. The 2 can not be compared.

[Spidergirl]

yeh but how many are puffed after being on the ground for like 1 second, how many miss as many crucial goals as he does, how many dont take marks they should right in fronta goal

[Hiya-and-Higher]

I have a friend who is a *fanatical* saints supporter...his view is that the saints should not trade Everitt...they should *give* him away. That's how impressed he is with the guy.

We want a tight team who have grown up in the trenches...i feel we should recruit only young tough fast types who will bleed for us.

There is one team that is doing what *we* were famous for...Port Power...born of Port Adelaide...they never give up...even when they are getting beaten...that is *our* tradition...and I hate to see other clubs doing it better we are.

I'd much rather see a tough committed Dimma than a flash harry full of flair but no passion. I think our guys are great. I hope they all come good and graduate into the The Magpie SAS.

[MargOZ]

NO WAY would I trade Rocca. I know there are times we question his fitness but that's something that can be worked on over the summer (which I hope they do). I still think the great stuff he does outweighs the errors - and besides the guy is only just turning 24.

I'd only want to see Spider at Collingwood if Malthouse gave him the ultimatum that he toes the line or else. I don't think we need all the trouble and subsequent bad press that follows Spider around!

GO PIES!

Marg

[Fab4 24-10-26-16]

I think some of you are being a bit too harsh on some of the players you have listed as "definitely gone."

Those who started at other clubs deserve the greatest scrutiny over those who have only played for the Pies. Why? Because as Richardson said in an interview earlier in the year, over the past Collingwood's new recruits were never pushed. They were left to develop at their own pace. He admitted that this 'wait and see' approach retarded his development. The only reason why Fraser and Lonie etc have been able to develop so much so quickly is that they have been thrown into the deep end without a life support. They have had to learn to dog-paddle to survive. Whereas, guys like Tucks, Kinnear, Wasley, Betheras etc who have all been around for several years have only been at Collingwood, where they were put straight into the wading pool and given floaties. They have only been under Malthouse for 2 years. Give them all one more chance and then put them in your trade list if they don't come up to your expectations.

As for the guys you mentioned like Lane, Dimma, Wakelin, Freeborn etc they have had the benefit of a much broader and fuller learning scheme and therefore should now be peaking. Rocca is hard to categorise. He has been at another club, but hated Sydney and was too homesick to learn anything. Then we he came to Collingwood, he lived under the shadow of Sav. I reckon he deserves another year to prove himself to all his doubters. So the first people you should put on your hit list are the ones from that 'second hand' category not the 'home-grown' variety.

The wait is almost over.

[This message has been edited by Fab4 24-10-26-16 (edited 07 August 2001).]

[Eminem]

What about Mckee for Solomon and Kinnear and Lane for Everitt.

One step closer.

[Rohan Coventry Tateson]

The only player I was too harsh on was Kinnear. He has a bit of size about him and had shown some promise matching up on guys such as Kouta last year.

The trouble is Micky does not give him enough game time to show his potential. Is it just me that believes he rarely uses his bench?

The rest have been given a chance but failed to deliver. I class Betheras, Wasley and Dimmitina as turnover merchants who have good old-fashioned guts and determination but let themselves down with poor disposal.

Sure it is great that they give there all, but there skill levels (by foot) won't help you win games.

Of the players who I said that will be lucky to stay I can only see Lane and Ukovic getting delisted or exchanged.




In Skob We Trust

[Legga]

Trade Rocca-No way.

I would love to see Spider playing for us, as I think he is the guy we really need to propel us forward, but Rocca has to be an untouchable. He is only 23, and has a big future ahead of him. How many players at the age of 19-20 had the expectations on him that Anth had. If he was a player out of the draft called Bobby Smith, you would be talking about him being in our top 10 young guys, but his name is Rocca and we all expect him to be the next Wayne(ker) Carey.

Some of the players on our list must go, but we really need some tall, quality players, as I feel we have enough smaller type on-ballers in our seniors and at Willi.
Rumours are abounding at this time, but don't forget, to get quality you must give quality. The other AFL teams aren't charities, and know our players intimately, so saying "trade the duds" isn't a realistic argument, as we know their strenghts and weaknesses, but so does everybody else.

[MarkT]

McKee for Solomon? I wish!
Not a chance in the world. Essendon have a couple of young ruckmen.
The Rocca v Spider is an interesting one.
Rocca could be anything but I am concerned about his arobic capacity. If Spider was at Collingwood this year I think we would talking right now about how high in the top 4 we would be at the end of round 22. Look at bthe close games we lost where we were thrashed in the ruck. Spider is not the best Palmer in the world but he is adequate. What he does do is get first hands on the ball. With our midfield, that would be invaluable. With our forwards, the quick centre clearance would be worth at least 3 goals a game (goals saved by preventing opposition clearances as well as goals scored when we clear the ball). 3 goals would have been enough in all but the last 3 of our losses and perhaps 1 more that escapes me right now.

I am, however, a Rocca fan aqnd would love to see and Spider in the side. For that matter, any ruckman able to break even would be a huge boost.

[Rohan Coventry Tateson]

I think Mark has hit it on the head. Everitt's influence would have netted us more wins than Rocca.

Ask any expert and they will tell you Collingwood lose games because they lack a ruckman. Blind Freddie could tell you, that’s how obvious it is.

The added bonus of Everitt is that when he isn't playing onball, he kicks goals. Very few ruckman in the AFL have this skill. It's interesting that he has kicked 23 goals this year while spending a majority of time on the ball. Rocca has only kicked 6 more goals despite playing the majority of time in the forward line.

Rocca will never make a good ruckman.

He lacks the aerobic capacity (oxygen system) to match it with players such as Primus and King who run all day.

He also gets found out on aerobically gifted backman such as Hay and Fletcher who run off him and set up forward thrusts for their team.

He is too inconsistent for a player is relied on. Spider on the other hand is clearly one of the best ruckman going around (stats show) and is in his peak age.

He is the difference between us being a top side rather than being an average side.

In Skob We Trust