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Go_The_Mighty_Magpies 
Joined: 27 Apr 2003
Location: Melbourne
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It isn't a person, it's a waste of space.
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| What does "it" refer to? |
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crackers57
Let sleeping dogs lie
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne
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| Post subject: Re: Is a Degree in Linguistics a Nick's Membership Requireme | |
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| magpie greg wrote: |
This is the result of having 10 years of a Cain-Kirner government followed by 6 disastrous years of Bracks and his cronies.
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I pretty much agree with what you point out, Greg but I feel that the above quote is just an oppotunity for you to push your anti-Labour sentiments. I feel this erosion of basic reading, writing, spelling and general communication skills would have occured either government.
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Proud Pies 
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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| crackers57 wrote: | | magpie greg wrote: |
This is the result of having 10 years of a Cain-Kirner government followed by 6 disastrous years of Bracks and his cronies.
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I pretty much agree with what you point out, Greg but I feel that the above quote is just an oppotunity for you to push your anti-Labour sentiments. I feel this erosion of basic reading, writing, spelling and general communication skills would have occured either government. |
Actually, I don't agree with the quote at all, because it's Australia Wide. And in between those Cain/Kirner - Bracks years was the Kennett Years from 1992 til 1999 and during this time Schools were decimated and closed. They were also made self managing/self budgetary and well, the money wasn’t actually spent where it should have been. I know, I was on School Council from 1992 – 2000 during the ‘Schools of the Future’ inception and fought long and hard to try and help my daughter’s school retain their teaching staff and their level (was a very high level) of education.
I also believe it's more the influence of those damn yankees again, where everything they try, we have to try here in Australia. They went with the phonetical style of communication in junior education, which has been copied here and has proven to have dire consequences. If it looks right to the child, then that must be the word.
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crackers57
Let sleeping dogs lie
Joined: 04 Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne
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Why is phonetic not spelled fonetic? 
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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Cam
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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| magpie greg wrote: | It isnt a question of closing schools down or not.
It is a question of syllabus and of lazy teachers letting kids get away with anything for a pass.
It is a question of letting everyone pass English so we dont hurt any itty bitty feelings and tell someone that their grasp of English is poor.
It is a question of letting Mary Bluett and her cronies and their predecessors getting away with defending incompetent teachers, who are also more intent on teaching ideology than something as basic and important as grammar.
You reap what you sow,
or
u rip wot chu so. |
Well being one of those lazy, incompetant teachers I feel I can respond to what you say there. Teaching, unfortunately, is driven by what is asked for in terms of assessment. Curriculums are indeed forwarded by governments as is evidenced by the changeover from Curriculum & Standards Framework 2 (which has 747 outcomes to supposedly be achieved by the end of year 8 ) to the VELS which is some bullshit acronym I can't even remember (Victorian..Education? & Learning? Strategies? Standards?) which only has 300+ outcomes.
The CSF with all its prescribed learning has been the guidebook for a number of years (not sure how long maybe 10 or 15 between CSF 1 & 2, I've only been teaching for 3 yrs) It was a liberal government thing.
With all this shit to be "completed" or "evidenced" each year you simply don't have the time to teach in depth like teachers taught in 1979. But I do because I think it works. Which makes me an anomaly within the system I agree, and if some people understood everything that I did and how different it is to the status quo I would probably be going back to being a computer tech.
Parents come into it as well. Many parents REFUSE that their underachieving brats, who get little support at home because they, the parents can't be fagged reading to them or listening to them read or buying a freaking newspaper once and a while or even talking to them without using the versatile F word as every verb, adverb, noun or conjunction in their conversation, be kept down. No, they say, it will harm them socially. So the teachers cannot keep them down. I have seen this several times. I have passed kids who should not have passed because their parents refused to have them repeat. Trust me, you want to keep em down. So much of school and home these days is about self rather than results, parents don't give a toss and let their kids slide into ignorance because hey, caravan life ain't so bad. Just breed and the government will look after ya.
Then you have the violent kids who no-one can deal with - cops, parents, teachers... you really want a 14 yr old 90 kg 6"2 kid in grade 6 bashing your kids? Other families pull out of the school saying their kids are getting bullied. Society just quietly is farked, I've seen the next generation up close and heaven help us when we are all 65+ let me tell you. It's going to be Mad Max stuff unless something changes...
Our local newsagent closed because people wouldn't buy his regular stuff - newspapers & magazines. Out of 100 kids at the school probably only 10 of them had access to a regular newspaper. Disgraceful.
Teachers are forced down the path by what the government asks of them to report on. Yes there are lazy arse teachers, just like there are lazy arse accountants, ditch diggers, cops, politicians, footballers, scientists and hairdressers. Blame the teachers if you like, but kids from homes that care about their education and make an effort in 90% of cases have no dramas.
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Proud Pies
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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well said Cam and it's a very sad world we live in when what you've written is the future of our children.
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
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Proud Pies
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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I'm a spelling nazi, but this is scary, i could read it all except i got confused on 1 word only.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer inwaht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. ! Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas thought slpeling was ipmorantt.
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
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stik35 
Joined: 22 May 2001
Location: VIC
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That's amazing, I just read straight through it.
Then why is it that when you are reading something with only one letter out of place, it stands out like a sore thumb?
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If you bleed black and white you'll never walk alone. |
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Proud Pies
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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Well, the whole paragraph is standing out like a sore thumb, but we can read it. I had it sent to me today in an email and I thought it would be perfect for here lol, so i guess i shouldn't complain about people's spelling anymore, however, grammar is another issue!
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Proud Pies wrote: | I'm a spelling nazi, but this is scary, i could read it all except i got confused on 1 word only.
I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer inwaht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. ! Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas thought slpeling was ipmorantt. |
Tahts ptetry azinmag 
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Proud Pies
Joined: 22 Feb 2003
Location: Knox-ish
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lol David.
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Jacqui © Proud Pies 2003 and beyond |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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magpie greg:
| Quote: | | I have never read such a load of codswallop since I read the last lot of ALP election policies. |
Your penchant for off-topic barrow pushing only distracts from the (in)effectiveness of your arguments.
| Quote: | | You make a false premise on the basis of which you make an erroneous jump in logic to another false premise and down the chain you go until you get to your illogical conclusion. |
The rest of your post fails to establish a chain of non sequiturs, so I'm assuming this is ad hominem puffery.
| Quote: | The bottom line of your "reasoning" is that the people who correct the grammar of other posters are firstly doing so as they are seeking to embarrass these other posters and secondly, they are suffering from a more serious affliction than that allegedly suffered by those who possess poor grammar skills.
It has nothing to do with embarrassment. It has got everything to do with communication skills. The business world is crying out for the display of better writing skills from those young people emerging from our academic institutions with "qualifications" of one sort or another. |
I guess the absurdity of correcting the grammar of strangers on a football website has failed to register with you. Last I heard, the business world was 'crying out' for people with EQ (emotional intelligence), which would include people who actually realise it is antisocial and offensive to correct the language of others unless you're a teacher, superior, appointed editor, parent or significant other. Your inability to detect embarrassment in others or foresee what may embarrass them is by no means evidence of the irrelevance of embarrassment to the debate.
| Quote: | | It is attitudes like those displayed by you that enable those who do not possess the most basic knowledge of English grammar and syntax to go through their academic life thinking they are good communicators until the time they enter the real world and are given a rude shock. |
Last time I conducted a survey of 'those who do not possess the most basic knowledge of English grammar and syntax', they told me they went through their academic life thinking they were poor communicators. Are you sure you're basing your opinion on credible research?
| Quote: | | The approach of these poor communicators and that of their sympathisers is to blame the messenger who points out their glaring deficiencies rather than take responsibility for their own lack of very basic skills. |
For a lack of what 'very basic skills' do poor communicators 'blame the messenger'? Kicking? Handpassing? Cooking? If you mean 'poor communicators blame their poor grammar on others who correct their poor grammar', you might like to humour us with one such example where this has actually taken place.
Something like this would be compelling:
"Damn you John, it's people like you who keep correcting my syntax who are actually responsible for my poor grammatical ability to begin with".
| Quote: | | This is the result of having 10 years of a Cain-Kirner government followed by 6 disastrous years of Bracks and his cronies. |
Does the purported fact that 'poor communicators blame their poor grammar on others who correct their poor grammar' really share a causal relationship with the Cain-Kirner and Bracks governments?
| Quote: | | We have a generation that doesn’t know how to spell or communicate unless words of 2 letters or less are used. |
Which generation are you referring to? Where do we have them?
| Quote: | | You reap what you sow it would appear and what is worse, there are the touchy feely do gooders who don't like competition and seek to encourage poor communication skills. |
Keep up the good work magpie greg. |
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