The Last Ten Posts And The Overall Picture

[Scottie Davo]

Right.

I logged on here wanting to put forward some ideas and portray my dismay at that performance and the current status.

But I have just spent the last 30 mins reading some pretty emotional stuff, and now my emotion has been somewhat drained as some of my points have already been mentioned.

This is all opinion, and may I just say up front, any supporter that tells another Collingwood supporter, whether it be Millane42 or anyone else, that they are to shut up or even become a supporter of another club-should find the biggest mirror they possibly can and stare at it for 24 hours straight.

I do not necessarily endorse what Millane42 has said, I think Molloy for instance was one player out there yesterday who came to play, but Millane42 is passionate about this club. Yep, he's been a touch negative, and only positives help the Club, but his gripes have some merit.

He, and we have just witnessed yesterday a performance that took me back to 1999. Why wouldn't he/we be frustrated?

For God's sake allow the man to let off steam. It provokes comment, and any opinion from people who argue the opposite should be equally welcomed.

Now...

The Umpires
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I tell you, I screamed at that f---ing television several times when the decisions went the wrong way, Collingwood clearly had poor decisions go against them-a couple possibly match turning, but we grabbed a goal from what should have been a Swan free.

Josh Fraser got a free for being held onto, Wayne Swass was equally entitled to get that free-his jumper was grabbed without the ball-simple. When we got the goal I felt as much anger towards the umpires than if the free was against us (like Richo...even if he did play on...as so many Swans did throughout the play but were still entitled to go back...where was the prior opportunity when he realised the umpire called play on?) because if the umpires do not improve- that type of free will go against us in a match down the track.

I wonder what sort of posts I would be reading if the jumpers were around the other way. Please do not be hypocritical.

...and I am more than cautious about Josh's so-called point... (Joffa I saw u on the TV and I giggled a touch).

What I demand from this umpiring performance is a please explain from the AFL unpiring chief to advise what he is going to do about it.

I am a footy consumer, and the product was a farce. I want acknowledgement that those umpires were substandard, and a guarantee that the problem will be worked on. The fallout if they continue to stick their head in the sand will be that throughout all of the grades in this country, the umpire will continue and increasingly become a target of abuse and intimidation.

Fix it.

Collingwood's Position
----------------------

I have read terms such as 'insipid, disgraceful, gutless...' to name a few. Every supporter I know would have at least thought this throughout times in yesterday's match.

A couple fo times I saw a pie or two have a little look up at the opposition rather than attack the footy. This did happen-there can be no argument, whether it is gutless or as I prefer to say uncommitted is a matter of debate that has already passed.

But there is one aspect that I am furious about-it is the inaccurate kicking of this team. Quite frankly, we have kicked away about 15 games over the past three years through amateurish kicking for goal. This isn't harsh-they are professionals.

They are paid to do a job. Of course losses will occur, that's ok, but what is not tolerated by my myself as a passionate Collingwood Fan is to see the simple tasks that they are employed to do be unfulfilled.

The answer? Dock their pay. That's right, yesterday's performance was no different to the Shaw days (and yes I find the term 'special comments' that surfaces every time he speaks on the TV as extremely ironical).

If a lawyer fails to adequately prepare for a case, would you expect to pay the total fee for his services? If he does prepare and fails-so be it. Same with these 'Pies, if they repeatedly fail to make the ball their no.1 target, or kick a goal from 30 metres out-their not earning their dough. That match against Esssendon-full pay to them-good effort.

This match-please return what you were paid.

And finally, as a team, the 'pies love the adoration from a great win (as per Football Park scenes)...but they should expect to be grilled when the opposite occurs. I am sure Millane42 loves them no less than you or I, and to deem him a bandwagoner rather than logically pose an alternative response to him is a disgrace in itself.

Go Pies-kick the Demons back to hell.



In my blood...and off my head.

[magpie joffa]

Scottie davo

That was good reading but your wrong mate so terribly wrong.

Define to me what the word 'supporter' means please.

I have no problems talking about our dissapointing performance yesterday but what sense does it make to come into a public forum and using terms such as insipid,gutless and spineless is that going to change what happened yesterday umm hello i dont think so.

Do you reckon the players are celebrating about yesterday's performance.

Do you believe all the hard working people at the club behind the scenes deserve such crap.

You see my belief is a supporter is some one who will at all times support the club through good times and bad times.

We have seen good times this year and the good days will return this team is very good believe you me it is a good one.

See i get pretty emotional when i hear fellow supporters who think it is there god given right to believe they have a right to say any thing destructive.

I also believe that these people do so because they can hide behind a computer screen and kick away and kick they do, i say to these people by all means say what you want to say as we do live in a democracy but have the sincerity and guts to sign your name at the bottom of the post.

Now isn't it better to say well ok pies put that one behind us and let's move on.

You see if you bag the club you are only bagging yourself the word club involves the commitee the players and the coach and the supporters.

You see im a member so big deal thousands of others are as well but when one bags this club they are bagging me and they are bagging you.

Collingwood is like family to me and i aint gonna sit on my ass and let people think they can bag collingwood whenever they want to,call me over the top call me obsessed but i will never make no apologies when it comes to this subject.

Infact in closing i wanna tell these people to go and look in the mirror right now and tell me if you really like what you see.

there is a great verse in our club song and it goes like this....

SIDE BY SIDE WE STICK TOGETHER TO UPHOLD THE MAGPIES NAME....
well lets practise what we sing.


There is nothing in life greater, than to be a supporter of our beloved collingwood football club,we must remain united,we must stand tall,we must be prepared to fight for our glorious black and white for we are the ENVY OF ALL must never NATIONS.'YOU'LL NEVER WALK ALONE'NUMBER 42 FOREVER ALWAYS IN OUR HEARTS
http://www.mp3.com/joffa

[Fradam]

Dock their pay???? thats a stupid suggestion. I've got an idea, how about we send the collingwood players around to watch you at your job, criticise you when you stuff up and tell your boss to dock your pay, then we'll see if you still think you idea is still a good one

Fradam Wrote This

[Scottie Davo]

Hey Joffa,


They are all good points you make mate.

Side by side we do stick together. Supporters we all are. But I have a suspicion there is just one point still missed by you and maybe others. It is that while again I agree that destructive or mindless posts have no place here, we have to allow for the frustration that comes with such a poor display.

It was a poor display Joff-not insipid and spineless as some may say but below what we now expect of what you and everyonbe else in here is saying is a force of a club.

We can't write how promising or lethal our team is or is becoming and then smile at a defeat like that.

My point is that whenever someone 'has a go' at the club, you, I and anyone else need to delve into the points they are making-emotion aside, and look to see if there are constructive criticisms of the team.

We are all experts at the game for one reason or another but if you see a gripe that appears to be a repeated, then that trend would eventually come under notive higher in the ranks if this great Club.

That I think, is the aim we all have-to further advance the Club.

Now some, such as Millane42, bring emotion into it and begin to scoot off the rails but you, i and most of the guys/girls in here can see past that and acknowledge his frustration.

His comments about Molloy I believe are simply wrong, and yep, he needs to focus on the bigger picture, but I would be far more pissed of if this room had an comments riddled with complacency and acceptance of the status quo.

I suspect the emotion that has surfaced in these posts, while not always appropriate-fits the mould of a supporter wanting the club to do better-now as I said, it is cool heads like you that can sift away the emotion and look for the clarity of what the point is-in all our funny individual ways, we want what is best for the Club. We all support the Club, some need get sidetracked through the sheer passion they feel for the Club.

And Fradam, I grinned when I read your post, but two quick points, I wouldn't be in my job if I was 'stuffing up' all the time. Think of it as a product they are supplying if the consumer is dissatisfied-don't pay.

And think of the money they earn-when I rake that amount in, I would expect to be subjected to performace reviews and open to feedback whenever I was under performing-it is what makes us better at the job.

And they can come and watch me work anytime, provided they had a financial interest in me like I do them (i.e membership).

Thanks for replying folks.

In my blood...and off my head.

[Fradam]

Scottie you just helped my point. The pies don't stuff up all the time and yet they have one bad day and everyone wants to stick the boots in.

You also mention performance reviews. usually thats done in private between employer and employee, not the general public. Now it's Mick Malthouse's job to review performance, not ours and I'm sure he knows a lot more than the rest of us who just think we know everything.

Fradam Wrote This

[Scottie Davo]

Hi again Fradam

Good point about MM. I agree, he is the decision maker, and players would ultimately lose thir jobs by being delisted for not performing, but I am becoming increasingly aware of consistent stuffing up with the overall results of recent years...that unfortunately is not just a day-but several seasons of under performance.

But again, I have said to all and sundry up here in Sydney (and yes I have been copping it all day...my mobile has not shut the f--- up with calls and smartarse text messages from these bastards up here!)they have looked better this year, I was so proud of them against Essendon, and Port was magnificent, but the players must be held accountable, as should MM for being slowly strangled yesterday.

God help us if we play like that against the leaders of the competition.

God help them when we hit our potential.

Let's start something this Monday.

In my blood...and off my head.

[ytry4]

Scottie Davo, I'm with you with your comment on supporters and especially members being able to express their opinions about the teams performance..

For those people who keep saying dont bag, dont criticise, etc. You can't just look at the good and forget the bad. You gotta know what you have done wrong to correct it. Someone said that we're all on the bandwagon, and one bad performance, we just jump off it. Gimme a break! This isn't the only bad performance - we've had a few, and luckily, we came out winners once or twice. And we get critical even during our wins, so that people on this BB don't get too carried away. And the fact that people are posting here shows that they are not bandwagoners.. a bandwagoner doesn't care when we lose, and Millane42 doesn't look like he doesn't care (although I don't agree with him 100%, particularly having a go at Molloy). Most people give their opinions which lets them let off some steam. They can't help it if they are passionate about COLLINGWOOD!

Aren't we counted as members of this GREAT CLUB if we say something that's true? They played bad yesterday... simple as that, and even Malthouse said the Swans were more committed, and wanted to play. Do you want to bag him too? Is he not part of Collingwood anymore?

[This message has been edited by ytry4 (edited 04 June 2001).]

[Dantheman]

The Pies will have bad days every now and then. Alf wrote a really good post about that topic a few weeks ago.

The Pies have now lost 1 in a row. It was our worst loss for the year (3 goals), which is pretty bloody good because they haven't collapsed in a heap like all the crap teams this year. I don't think it's time to start criticising anyone.

I recommend everyone go and watch the Carlton game. Up-lifting stuff.

P.S
Go Molloy.
Mark of the year (if Ablett's was paid, so should Molloy's).

[Spidergirl]

Scottie Davo i agree with ya a bit. I get very sick of ppl getting caught up in hype and not seeing the real picture. You can have Eddie and his Collingwood raving u can have the cheersquad parading out in full force but at the end of the day the only thing that is really significant is whether Collingwood gave it their all to collect the 4 points. That was a game that we should have won and whether Buclkey is in or not there are still the same number of men on the field so whats the problem.

This is how i see it....Pies have improved heaps this year but i can feel that sinking feeling comin again as soon as they look like finals material. Last year we used that pathetic rebuilding stage and now this blasted "June Excuse" is coming up again and it shitting me to tears!!! I hope Pies can win next week and not go down that track again.

[Fradam]

Gee it must be me coz I walked out of Colonial thinking to myself well they didn't play their best but they had a go, they tried as hard as they could. One of the reasons I'm so proud of the club is they always fight it out, they don't give in. They only lost by three goals. I'm proud of em, they're tough and they fight and they play with all their hearts and even if we lose every game it doesn't bother me coz as long as they have a go and give it their best shot well that's all I want.

Fradam Wrote This

[ytry4]

First of all, if anyone thinks that I said the players were gutless should read all my recent posts again. The words non-committed were taken out of context by some people on this board. If that criticism of me saying they were gutless was centered at me, please take it back. If not, well, dont worry about this portion of my post.

Anyway, I do not agree with Millane42 saying that Molloy stinks.. that's a personal attack! I do not, however, condemn people from expressing their opinions, whether it be positive or negative, about the teams performance...

[This message has been edited by ytry4 (edited 05 June 2001).]

[Millane42]

Thanks Scottie Davo and Spsycochick - for pointing out the free speech and the right to an opinion, and I agree I was frustrated, and you'll see the subsequent apologies on various postings for the so-called "vicious" headings. But you are 100% correct on the issue of telling supporters who should or should not be supporters, who is a bandwagoner, etc. I don't think anyone who doesn't love collingwood, or football in general would even bother to look on this board - it was an airing of frustration and anger. Most people can see that and move on. Cheers Mike.

[magpie24]

I totally agree with your post Spidey.
I will leave it at that cos you said it all................

******WE WILL RISE IN OUR WAY*****