Speeding - Dangerous?

[CQ]

I dont think they need to lower the speed limit any more, we have one of the lowest road tolls in the world.

China had something like 104,000 last year!

[Joel]

China also has a population of 1 billion +.

[foreigner]

Bokka ... this is a Collingwood footy forum .. not "I don't care about road rules - my dad broke road rules ha ha ha and TAC sucks" forum ... go take ur stuff somewhere else please.

[bokka]

CAn't you read foreigner? I have been reformed! I have seen the light of the brilliant statistical logic (I must be one of the very few here that has studied stats), and now I demand that to save more lives, the state limit be lowered to at least 60k, preferably 30k or even lower, since undeniably this would save precious lives.
Yet noone is supporting me in my new crusade, despite the fact this would save hundreds or thousands of precious lives - mothers, children, uncles etc etc. CQ even stated the limit is "low enough" because the toll isn't lower than in CHina or somewhere. How thoughtless! I bet, as someone already said, it would be different if one of *his* relatives or friends was one of the hundereds killed in 60kph accidents!

Come on, oh all ye of lofty morals, I'm still waiting for an arguement against this. I'll repeat once more, since it doesn't seem to be sinking in at all: your statistics show that lowering the state limit to 60k or lower would definitely save hundreds, maybe thousands of lives!

[sherrife]

There comes a point where the level of risk is not reduced significantly when compared to the level of inconvenience which is introduced.

Bokka mate try to control yourself no need to be a smart-a**.

[bokka]

[sherrife]

I'm not getting involved , i was just making a point which i thought was fairly obvious....

No I haven't read all the posts, but I think that the Autobahn and other European roads have very low death tolls. Is this true? I'm pretty sure it is... anyway, the point being that if there isn't a problem, don't interfere.

I think the issue is that in Australia we have too few lanes on our freeways which results in problems with merging traffic etc. Whereas in other countries there are 8+ lane freeways, there is plenty of room for everyone. I'm not suggesting that we adopt 8 lane roads, but since we have smaller roads we need lower speeds to ensure that things run smoothly.

And yea i'm with you mate, i hate when people use emotive crap in their arguments.

[Kelpelican]

Thought I would add some of my opionion to this topic
I actually have studied the road toll a fair bit and want to add my points to the statistics debate

One main finding which I think is ignored is the road toll has fallen in every westerned country over the last ten or so years by almost the same rate as Australia
And none of these countries had the scare campaigns Victoria has (interestly no other state has scare campaigns to the extent of Victoria yet they all have had falling road tolls)
or have they got the legislation we have

So the arguments that the TAC campaign and reduced speed limits have caused the fall in our road toll are misleading and not conclusive

The main explanantion for the reduced road tolls is the changing age of the population
Mainly that we have less people aged between 18-24 and 25-29 and these two groups are involved int he most accidents
If there are less people of this age in the population then there are less accidents

Also on you stats bokka
They only show the number of road fatalities
I am not sure on this but I think serious accidents have actually risen but due to the advances in medical technology more people are living after accidents which could explain the road toll

As someone who works with statistics for a living I would never trust any statistic unless I know where they came from, how they were calculated and who paid for the research
You can make statistics say anything

[bokka]

Interesting Kelpelican, and great timing to get a statistics expert here on Nick's.
Yep I'm sure I don't have the level of stats knowledge that you have, but also have seen how statistics are terribly misused, especially (in my readings) epidemiology which is pretty scandalous in parts, drug co's and all that.
Hadn't thought of the population age groups aspect, though that also crops up in medical and biol stats.
The only thing I wonder about the TAC is whether they are just misinformed with less than ideal research, or there is a hidden agenda in social control or something. It does seem to be very easy to make totally wrong conclusions, by misinterpreting data. But it's a bit hard to believe they are not aware of the data you refer to, after all these years and with their funding.

PS I hope someone doesn't call you a smart-arse too

Sherrif I haven't been on euro frewways much maybe there's someone here that has, but as I recall it's not all that much different re no's of lanes in Germany, esp when you get out of town a bit. The idea is that people are sensible and slow down when it gets congested, they don't particularly want to die.

[Lone Ranger]

It is blatantly clear that the government is more interested in revenue than seriously addressing the road toll. Going 40k over is probably a bit over the top but pinging people for 5k over is ridiculous.

Here are some things that effect your stopping distance MORE than going 5k faster:
- quality of your tyres
- having the correct air pressure in your tyres
- quality of your car
- paying attention (reaction times have a FAR greater impact than 5kmh)

Why dont we ban retreads? WHy dont we promote the importance of having good tyres and having them inflated correctly? Why dont we try teaching people to drive (That might really help)? It would seem that the simple answer is there is no money in that.

Excessive speed is dangerous. Trying to reduce the road toll by concentrating on speed to the exclusion of everthing else is silly.

[CQ]

Well everyone knows that Bracks is just revenue raising. Total rubbish that 5ks over is going to make a difference. MAYBE in crashes involving pedestrains. but the rest is just crap. Bracks is a money hungry shit talker.

But we're not talking about an accidental 5ks over here are we, we're talking blatant deliberate speeding of 40+ks over.

I'm sick and tired of young people being tryhard heroes, especially males, thinking they're it and a bit on the road and everyone should get out of their way.

[CQ]

Yeh exactly lone ranger, also whether you've got good brakes, ie get them serviced, whether they're ABS etc etc.

I think a new commodore or something would pull up a lot quicker then an early 80's comodore.

[Culprit]

Seriously if the TAC and the Government were serious about speeding drivers all the money they pump into advertising and speed detection would go on driver education. Prevention is better than cure. The reason they don’t is because the bottom line is the money they make goes into the State Revenue. What many don’t realise once you die on our roads the chances of anyone getting money from the TAC regarding your death is minimal. So the TAC & Government in its wisdom would rather you die in an accident than be injured simply because of the rehab costs.

On a full licence I can go and buy a car capable of doing 220 KMH plus for $40000. I can go to my local Suzuki dealer and hand over $18000 and have a motorcycle that does standard from the shop 200 MPH. that’s Miles Per Hour. 320KMH.

If they were serious these weapons would not be available.

Had to laugh listening to today’s news on my way to work that the police are appalled at drivers on the Western Ring Road during a two-day blitz. They say drivers now speed since the speed cameras were turned off. The police have not got a clue, they sped when the cameras were on, and they just slowed down for the fixed speed cameras that everyone knows where they were located. As far as I am concerned the police should have been patrolling the bloody road whether there were speed cameras or no speed cameras.

Speed Kills, yes it does. But a moron doing 50 in the right hand lane of a freeway is a road hazard and should be charged with dangerous driving as well.

A visible police presence is what slows people down. I do over 1000 kilometres per week. I see heaps of speed cameras; very rarely do I see a marked car or an unmarked car. My friend in the TOG told me that they are to only drive the cars if they have to due to high fuel costs. He tells me you have more chance getting done by a camera than a patrol, simply because of manpower and cost issues.

Go Clokey.

[Lone Ranger]

I understand what you are getting at with performance cars Culprit, but on the other hand, a performance car:
- has better brakes
- better quality tyres
- lower profile tyres
- handles better

How about teaching people to drive? What a radical concept!

[Cannibal]

There's a lot in what the Lone Ranger says. Driving tuition seems to be all about getting a kid his licence, not teaching him/her to drive safely. Someone wrote earlier in the thread about country driving and, as I live out there too, must say it's totally true. Many, many times every week, I see young kids driving so badly I wonder if they will live much longer. One good thing about this thread; it's made me decide to go take an advanced driving course myself. We all have something to learn, no matter how experienced we are, and it's reminded me that I can only take care of myself. So, if there are always going to be nongs doing stupid things on the road, I need to protect myself even better.