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How do you define success?

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Damien Aquarius

Me Noah & Flynn @ the G


Joined: 21 Jan 1999
Location: Croydon Vic

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:36 pm
Post subject: How do you define success?Reply with quote

The last time I looked there was only one spot on top of the AFL ladder and one premier each year. Unless you are Brisbane nobody has had a real lot of success lately.

All you idiots calling for the coaches head no doubt would say that Sheedy should have gone from Essendon by now too. Essendon are considered to be under-achievers cos they only got one flag with what was touted as one of the great teams of the modern era. Sheedy has been there for 25 years now and has got them 4 flags which i reckon is a pretty good strike rate.

Malthouse got the WCE 2 flags in 10 years - once again a pretty good strike rate.

My point is that you cant stay up all the time and if you only measure success by flags then we and every other club aint gonna have a lot of success to celebrate.

If we were to go offloading a dual-premiership coach after 1 and possibly two seasons out of the 8 (lets hope not) then we are fools. Quality coaches dont grow on trees you know.

Clearly injuries have been the MAIN reason for this failure (not the only one but the main one).

If I honestly compare our success since MM arrived then the only clubs that I'd say have been better than us over that 5/6 year period are Brisbane, Port and Essendon. Compare the coaches that have been available during that time also and there are NONE with a better premiership record than MM.

Stick fast with Malthouse - I personally hope that he can ride out this storm and have a Sheedy-like dynasty at Collingwood.

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Meatpie Capricorn



Joined: 16 Feb 2004
Location: Brisbane

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:41 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Spot on Damiem....Finally someone with a comment worthy of reading regarding the coach !

By all accounts according to the some of the people on here, there would be 14 senior coaching positions up for grabs every two years !
Wonder why there isn't ???.....Could it be the fact that the club employs people who actually have a clue about running a club and what it takes rather than some nappy wearing whinger on the internet calling for eveyones blood at the club cause something isn't going right ? Rolling Eyes

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Piepark 



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: Victoria

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:01 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

I define succes simply by the amount of premierships we have won. I actually hope Mick Malthouse continues as coach but the reality is so far he has coached us since the year 2000 without a flag. This is his 6th year. Tommy Hafey got the boot in his 6th year after a fantastic era as coach. But he never got us the flag. If the list isn't managed well and we pick players on the basis of reputation not form, he may never win us a flag. That is his choice not mine. As I said I hope he continues, his knowledge and passion outweigh his faults. But his destiny is with him, not us.
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Johnson#26 



Joined: 18 Dec 2003


PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 5:16 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Success is reaching the highest you can achieve (in everyday life).

In football, premierships are success. Does anyone remember second best?

MM has been a successful coach IMO, with what he has done with our list. Do we take a step backward to go forward???
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jimbeam 



Joined: 29 Mar 2005


PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:26 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

We have made the finals bugger all in the last 20 years.. We have lost 2GFs and dropped from 2nd to 13th? last year.. This year we are 1-4 and dont look like winning a game for at least 2mnths based on current form, i hope they prove me wrong.. I would say collingwood has been one of the most unsuccessful clubs in the last 2 decades easy, about 4-5 finals in the last decade yeh? if that.. Add up how many flags we have won in the AFL not VFL that equals a massive 1 flag, for the biggest richest club going around thats a bloody disgrace... We dont even know what success is, making the finals each year would be a start like the dons 8 years running and a few cups, thats success and we are suppose to be bigger and better than them, its laughable.. Thats more than us in the last 20years. But again micks not to blame, although something is not right and people are getting sick of the excuses.. Win a GF its been over a decade...
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Johnson#26 



Joined: 18 Dec 2003


PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:40 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Add up how many flags we have won in the AFL not VFL that equals a massive 1 flag, for the biggest richest club going around thats a bloody disgrace...


If we're talking AFL, then the list stands at:

Since 1990

Brisbane: 3
North Melbourne/Kangaroos: 2
Essendon: 2
West Coast: 2
Adelaide: 2
Collingwood: 1
Hawthorn: 1
Carlton: 1
Port Adelaide: 1

One of 9 clubs to have won one.
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jimbeam 



Joined: 29 Mar 2005


PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:57 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeh we won the first one, and too add to our great success we have won 2 flags in almost fifty years.. bucks, licca, pebbles, burnsy to name a few have done more than enough to justify another cup, it just looks like we are too accepting for our own good.. When you think about the players we have missed in the last 5 years. At least try and buy them one.

Last edited by jimbeam on Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cam Capricorn

Nick's BB Member #166


Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:59 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Ultimately, when you have 4 of your best players out, every week, it makes it damn hard.
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labrooy 



Joined: 18 Sep 2003
Location: Toowoomba, Qld

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:02 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

As the original poster said there is only ONE premier every year. That is a fact. We are a strong club and should probably have more success than others but the reality of the National Draft, Trade Week and the Salary Cap combine to make the competition even, wiping out the advantages of high member numbers and excellent media exposure.

As supporters we demand premierships but then so do the supporters of the other 15 clubs. Every year 15 sets of supporters are disappointed. There is not a lot we can do about that.
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Lone Ranger 



Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Location: Macedon Ranges

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:26 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Have any of you ever though our problem in the last 50 years was maybe being too impatient and expecting too much, too easily. Maybe if we had kept Hafey longer we might have been better off???
Knee jerk, simply reactions to problems such as "sack the coach" aint necessarily the answer.
Part of the problem is injuries. Who has the least injuries ... WC and Kangas. Where are they on the ladder? We had next to no injuries in 02, 03. Injuries arent the only factor but they are certainly a factor.
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natkingcole 



Joined: 07 Feb 2003
Location: Melbourne,Victoria,Australia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:11 pm
Post subject: The CoachReply with quote

This is not to denegrate the effort of MM in getting us off the bottom of the ladder and into two sucessive GF's, but coaches have finite life spans and IMO MM's time is up. Since 2003 the team has gone no-where. How often can a coach repeat the same message to a player before the player just gives up? MM is not as flexible as Sheedy, doesn't heed advice and refuses to alter his game plan. What's the point of a coach having assistant coaches if the head coach doesn't listen. We still have the basis of a very good team under a different coach so why do we have to wait until MM's contract expires in 2006. We should bite the bullet now and go for one of the younger coaches.
I have no criticism of the way MM coached until the 2003 GF. Then he just seemed to lose it and blame it all on the players, just like Hafey did back in 82. When that happens and the coach refuses to change tact, then it's time for the coach to go.
Still MM will leave Collingwood in much better state (player wise) than Matthews or Shaw did.
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perthmagpie Aries



Joined: 27 Mar 2004
Location: Yarrawonga

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:36 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

At the moment I would partially define success for us as:
-Having 3 to 4 players nominated for the Rising star award this year (Rowe, T.Cloke, Rusling and a new Shaw)
-Having Travis Cloke, Cameron Cloke, Rusling or a new player kick 5 in one game
-Having our 5 year ruck problem being solved once and for all with Fraser and Richards teaming well together
-Seeing Bucks play again with definite signs his injury problems are gone for good
-See Didak play a blinder in the midfield once fit
-See Rhyce Shaw further improve his kicking on the run (and start slamming through some goals)
-See Taz start kicking straight
-See Davidson play half a dozen promising games and not get injured
-See Tex hold down a key forward post with more contested marks
-See Ryan Lonie finally find his correct position

None of this is about winning games. Its all about the future and hope. While there's hope the future can wait a while.

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Lone Ranger 



Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Location: Macedon Ranges

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:09 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do coaches have finite life spans ata club? Norm Smith, Kevin Sheedy, and our own Jock would say that is simply not true.
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KYPREO Virgo



Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:42 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Great post perthmagpie...if we don't make the 8 this year, then I would be satisfied if all those things happened.

The difference between WCE and Geelong of the last 2 years and this year has a lot to do with the number of Rising Stars they had last year (and Geelong's had another already).

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PieGal4eva 



Joined: 03 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:59 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

perthmagpie wrote:
At the moment I would partially define success for us as:
-Having 3 to 4 players nominated for the Rising star award this year (Rowe, T.Cloke, Rusling and a new Shaw)
-Having Travis Cloke, Cameron Cloke, Rusling or a new player kick 5 in one game
-Having our 5 year ruck problem being solved once and for all with Fraser and Richards teaming well together
-Seeing Bucks play again with definite signs his injury problems are gone for good
-See Didak play a blinder in the midfield once fit
-See Rhyce Shaw further improve his kicking on the run (and start slamming through some goals)
-See Taz start kicking straight
-See Davidson play half a dozen promising games and not get injured
-See Tex hold down a key forward post with more contested marks
-See Ryan Lonie finally find his correct position

None of this is about winning games. Its all about the future and hope. While there's hope the future can wait a while.



Fantastic post...I started salivating mid way through... Laughing

Damien, thanks for trying to restore some sanity...getting sick of sack the coach threads....
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