Best 25 from last 25 years

[Pied Piper]

For the older Nickheads - here is a real tough one.

I was wondering who you rated as the best players of the past 25 years - from ALL clubs. (Memo to the more one-eyed among you - this might not be the thread for you!)

Off the top of my head, mine would look something like this. It's naturally a personal selection - some players I think would be automatic choices in any team, some are obviously more individual but I've included them because I've taken into account the impact they had on the game overall, not only on the field - Michael Long and Jimmy Stynes most notably. And they were hardly shabby players, winning Norm Smith and Brownlow Medals respectively.

(There are a number of Norm Smith Medallists in here, as I think more than the Brownlow it's an indication of a player's true value. Gary Ayres and Andrew McLeod both won two.)

Obviously, the most successful clubs are best represented - Hawthorn most obviously. Their 80s side was a powerhouse. St Kilda defies the rule with four entries - champions all, though. A few clubs don't rate a single player - maybe Dougie Hawkins for Footscray? No one from West Coast despite two flags in the 90s?

I should also say, this is not a team-building exercise - my list is devised irrespective of a player's position.

I'm sure there are players I've forgotten. That's partly the reason for this thread - my own list is subject to revision - so please, don't turn this into a "how-can-you-include-so-and-so". I couldn't care less about that - I'm interested in who YOU rated, the players you really admired or just plain enjoyed watching for what they brought to the game. I don't expect anyone will agree with each other, it's just good fun - and it might tell us something about how the game's evolved.

With all that preamble over with, here it is:

Leigh Matthews (Hawthorn)
Gary Ayres (Hawthorn)
Dermott Brereton (Hawthorn)
Jason Dunstall (Hawthorn)
Trevor Barker (St Kilda)
Tony Lockett (St Kilda/Swans)
Nicky Winmar (St Kilda)
Tim Watson (Essendon)
Terry Daniher (Essendon)
Peter Daicos (Collingwood)
Tony Shaw (Collingwood)
Steven Silvagni (Carlton)
Steven Kernaghan (Carlton)
Greg Williams (Carlton)
Paul Roos (Fitzroy/Swans)
Gary Hocking (Geelong)
Gary Ablett (Geelong)
Jim Stynes (Melbourne)
Wayne Carey (Kangaroos)
Michael Long (Essendon)
Robert Harvey (St Kilda)
Andrew McLeod (Adelaide)
Nathan Buckley (Collingwood)
James Hird (Essendon)
Michael Voss (Brisbane)

The Weed

[AGE]

I agree with all those players in that list except one. Trevor Barker, only because I never saw him play. But in his place I'd slot in Darren Jarman.

[Pied Piper]

Thank you Athas. Darren Jarman was indeed a super player.

The one I just remembered: Craig Bradley! Should definitely be in the 25 - but who would I dump? Definitely somebody - he wasn't just incredibly durable, he was hugely influential I think in terms of what's now called outside play and "zoning off" opponents. Much more than a receiver. And Bruce Doull, whose club games record he took was a marvellous player.

Shit! What about Kevin Bartlett and Michael Tuck - the only two 400 gamers ever? Bartlett is a walk-up! I'm already going to have to revise this list and I only did it a couple of hours ago!

Damn, who else did I forget? Bring it on guys and gals...

Weed

[Lazza]

Athas Hrysoulakis, I did see Trevor Barker play many games and he was a champion mate. Real talent & class. I would most definitely have him on the list dude.

[AGE]

I agree he was a champion with class and talent. But I'm just going on the fact I never saw him play.

[Joe]

Gary Ablett
Peter Daicos
Tony Lockett
Wayne Carey
Darren Millane
John Platten
Dermott Brereton
Greg Williams
Nathan Buckley
Paul Kelly
Kevin Bartlett
Trevor Barker
Matthew LLoyd
Ross Glendenning
Jason Dunstall
Craig Bradley
Ricky Barham
Terry Walace
Steven Silvagni
Michael Conlan
Robert Flower
Andrew Mcloud
Dale Weightman
Craig Bradley
Robert Harvey
That is a few without giving it hours of thought.
These are players I have enjojed watching,they may not have been the best.

[AGE]

Weed and Joe,
Upon a second examination of your lists. I'm just a little bothered about the fact that you couldn't squeeze in the great Athas Hrysoulakis in there somewhere. I mean, come on!

[WhyPhilWhy?]

Hmmm.... Good one Weed, it got me to thinking.

If we are going back to '78, then I think we have to slip Ross Glendenning in there somewhere - maybe at the expense of Hocking.

And while considering the old shinboners, maybe Malcolm Blight as well, instead of Terry Daniher.

And one player I had to give grudging respect was Bernie Quinlan, the Anthony Rocca of his day. But its tough to kick anyone else out. Maybe Ayres?

I feel I should be able to squeeze Michael Tuck and Paul Kelly in there somewhere as well, but then of course the first 22 should go to the 1990 Grand Final team.

Good question though....

[Damien]

Lose Winmar and Daniher......and Malcolm Blight has to be in there (rated as the best he ever saw by none other than Peter Daicos). One thing is for sure though Weed, you've got the two very best ever in there....Leigh Matthews and Wayne Carey

[Pied Piper]

Yep, I wouldn't disagree with Blighty. Robbie Flower was wonderful too, and I'd probably swap Timmy Watson for Craig Bradley. Glendinning and Bernie "Superboot" Quinlan are in my unlucky category, as is dual Brownlow Medallist Peter Moore. Kevin Bartlett is one definite automatic entry I overlooked, so some people are gonna be dumped!

For me, Gary Ablett was the most extraordinary player I ever saw, and Daicos the greatest Collingwood player - possibly the most naturally gifted small forward-cum-midfielder ever - he actually won a Copeland as a centreman before moving forward.

Leigh Matthews was a very different kind of player, but also filled both these roles and kicked a huge number of goals. He didn't need Daicos' evasive skills because he was more like a tank - I'll never forget him crunching into Andrew Ireland and taking half the poor guy's ribcage with him.

Still working on it folks... keep the suggestions rolling! - Weed

[nitric]

Without doubt, the very best player I ever saw was Russell Ebert. I watched him in late 60s before he went to North where he was the leading possession gatherer for his one and only stint in the VFL.

I saw him chase down an opponent who was running thru the centre, bouncing and running. Ebert caught up, drew level then, without breaking stride, he leaned over and collected the ball from the next bounce leaving his opponent grasping for air. Ebert swung around, turned to his own goals, had a coupla bounces himself and drilled a powerful drop kick through the centre. Pure class.

I would never include Mathews in such a list, I'm afraid. I much prefer watching footballers. I have no interest in watching thugs go about their evil business of thuggery. You might as well include Lord Byron. I salute Mathews as a great coach but I have no delusions as to why he never cracked it for a Brownlow.

Hird, Carey, Voss and Buckley are top class players for sure and deserve to be in any list like this.

But what about the likes of Pop Star Peter McKenna? That guy would kick so many goals per season (or per game, if you like) that its as if you had TWO people in the goal mouth. Awesome.

So maybe you could give some thought to your criteria. You want the best players, you say.

Well, for some bizarre reason, the guy who gets the Brownlow, as often as not fails to win his Clubs B&F award. Some clubs don't even call it B&F. They have most valuable clubman and other variations on the theme.

Lockett was probably the best kick. Diesel Williams probably had the best hands. You could argue all day about the best mark. Robert Walls? Its too uneven over a career. but a Full Forward or CHF would probably get the nod here. Best ruckman? Peter Moore was VERY good.

How do you rate a short, bright career (Coleman) against a much longer but perhaps less spectacular career? For example, looking at cricket statistics, a player with a very long career migh have a lower batting average than someone with a much shorter career. Who is the better batsman?

And so it is with footballers.

We admire Ablett and Hudson and Dunstall immensely because they fill the scoreboard to overflowing. What about Geoff Southby? Mean as! I always rate him as the Full Back of the century and certainly ahead of that cheat Silvagni.

A good thread, Weed. Well done.

[Pied Piper]

Thanks Nitric, although you overlooked that I did say of the past 25 years - that's 1978-2003 and that's about as far back as I can remember. You raise a number of good points and many wonderful players, though.

I went on "best" rather than necessarily "best and fairest" - although it's worth pointing out Leigh Matthews still accumulated a lot of Brownlow votes over the course of his career, he just didn't win. His flooring of Neville Bruns remains a blot on his name, which he acknowledges. Still, one helluva footballer!

Criteria will always be subjective. For instance I rated Michael Long, who didn't play as many games as some and was almost always hindered by injury. But he will stay in the game's folklore and my memory for two reasons - one of the all-time great individual performances in the 1993 GF, and for actually changing the laws of the game re racial vilification. He made the league and its supporters look themselves in the mirror, and he is a hero to Aboriginal footballers (and many white guys like me) for it.

I'm really enjoying hearing these perspectives, though, so let's hear more!

Weed

[Damien]

Nitric, you gave me a great laugh mate. So your saying that Leigh Matthews and Russell Ebert head to head is a no brainer. Yeah do a quick survey of 100 people and I have no doubt 100 will disagree with ya. Even if 99 of 'em were South Australians.

Matthews is without a doubt the most complete footballer of all time not just the last 25 years. Russell Ebert is up there with Rick Davies, Graham Cornes, Kym Hodgeman, Brett Chalmers and a host of other Croweaters who came to the VFL with big reputations yet could never cut it in the big league so they p!ssed off home to the SANFL where they could get a kick.

What are you on?

[Cam]

Andrew McLeod
Mark Ricciuto

Michael Voss

Stephen Silvani
Wayne Johnston
Bruce Doull

Nathan Buckley
Darren Millane

Simon Madden
Roger Merrett
James Hird
Tim Watson

Alistair Lynch

Gary Ablett

Leigh Matthews
Dermott Brereton
Jason Dunstall

Wayne Carey
David Dench
Wayne Schimmelbusch

Francis Bourke
Kevin Bartlett

Tony Lockett

Peter Matera
Ashley McIntosh

[chalky]

Very provocative post weed, nice one The first thing that came to mind was (as a pie supporter) who would worry me in the opposition team that day. The other qualifier would be, begrudging respect for that player. You know, that player who plays the game with passion/power/flair and you wish he would come to Collingwood.
Looking through the various lists many of those mentioned fulfill my personal criteria no ploblem, especially Quinlan, Wayne Johnston (always when it counted! nice pick up Cam ) Hudson, Matthews, Blight and of course Ablett
Of Collingwood - my all time Pre-90s faves not mentioned were Price and Greening. The 90s brought pleasure and pain. Nothing gave me more pleasure than watching Daicos do his thing. Buckley is, ATM, the best. Could be up there with the best ever if he wins a Brownlow/Premiership.
Damien, you may/may not remember Peter Eakins? was he WA or SA? lol