The Stab Pass, The Flat Punt, The Drop Kick and the Torp

[Northern Pie]

This is a bti of a carry over from the Thurrold Merret Post.......

My old man who is a pretty highly regarded coach up here in QLD actually taught me all of those types of kicks growing up, mainly because there may be a situation where it can be used and if so a player should be able to do them effectively. I remember doing a stab pass a few times during a game and my coach berating me about it the first fewtimes, but as he realised that it was effective each time i did it he allowed me to do it. On the run and done effectively you cannot deliver the ball with more speed or accuracy than a stab pass. It is low, fast and look bloody sensational when done correctly.

The Flat Punt....Never used it but can be very effective when you have the wind on your side as it carries a long long way.

The Drop Kick if done well is extrememy accurate and travels a long distance very quickly. I tried it once and it was a barry crocker so no more drop kicks for me as I spent the rest of the day on the pine for that incident.

The Torp, still used but not used enough. It really isn't that hard to master, just you have to take your time when you do it, so therefore in todays fast game it has dissapeared. But nothing gets the crowd going like a big torp..as we have seen from the rocca brothers and Daics..if done right it is awesome

My old man was saying that he caught a WAFL game the other week and a kid playing for Subiaco used the stab pass for the whole game and was extremely effective with it...caused a bit of a stir with the commentators and a fair bit of excitement as well, I will try and find out his name....

Anyways sorry for the long post

Cheers

[Donny]

No apologies needed, NP. A good read. There was no better sight in footy than a well executed drop kick.

Wasn't Colin Tully's 90 yard goal, from the centre of the MCG, a drop kick ? Tully was one of the best kicks to have ever pulled on a Collingwood jumper. He was a centerman and wore #9 who played in the middle to late '60s.

[Brown26]

last night one of the johnson boys was 80 metres from goal, pack formed about 35 metres from goal, he dropped a torp into the goal square which took the backmen by surprise and the dons took an easy mark - shows the benefit of the torp in some situations. I know Rocca and Bucks practise them a bit - esp at goal.

- Ben

[Dr Alf Andrews]

You didn't mention the check-side.

Very important kick to have in your repetoire when lining up for goal on a tight angle on your wrong foot. Anthony Rocca missed an absolute sitter tonight from two metres out. A properly executed check-side punt would have nailed it easily.

Invented by a guy called Jack Oatey in S.A, legendary Sturt coach. And was used to great effect by the Sturt premiership teams of the 1960s.

[stab punt jim]

YOUNG FOOTBALLER INVENTS NEW KICK TO COUNTER MUDDY CONDITIONS
see,http://www.mtevelyn.net/documents/ThingsPast/044%20Things%20Past%20Oct%202011.pdf.. page 3.
STAB PUNT INVENTED BY 15 YEAR OLD SCHOOL KID IN 1949 An Australian Rules Football Developmrent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usF8XVkEElk
The Stab kick is reported to have been discovered accidentally by Collingwood (VFL) players during a tour of Tasmania in 1902. Page 195 3AW Book of Footy Records.
So from 1902 no one did anything extra with the stab kick till Jim, the 15-year-old school kid playing for the Mt Evelyn First XVIII, converted the stab kick into the stab punt in 1949
STAB PUNT INVENTED BY 15 YEAR OLD SCHOOL KID IN 1949
I had only the sporting globe football book of 1948 and no coaching, only my young mind. Having paper footballs and only a real football on the school ground at playtime from grade six till I was 15 in Form Four, I managed to perfect my Australian Rules foot disposal. See below.
James A. Johnson at age 14, in 1948 revamps Jack Dyers drop punt for goal,” silliest looking kick in football history” (Page 49 The Sporting Globe Football Book 1948), into a Drop Punt Field Pass, kicked at full pace. Invents The Stab Punt replacing the Stab Kick, at age 15, in 1949 These kicks are the predominant kicks used as field passes today. "Johnson should write a book on stab kicking he has found the lost art." by Davey Crocket, The Ringwood Mail, September 8, 1960. (Re Jim’s Stab Punt.)
"Johnson sent his delightful little drop punt pass to Manfield." Frank Casey, The Ringwood Croydon Post, September 8, 1960. (Jim’s Stab Punt)
"No doubt about Jimmy Johnson, he definitely has found the lost art of stab passing." (Re Jim’s Stab Punt.) “The Ringwood Mail”, Thursday, September 15, 1960. Stab Kicks, By Davy Crockett. (Re Jim’s STAB PUNT)
THE SCIENCE OF KICKING published 2007.
Re THE STAB PUNT.
"The authors have COINED the term stab punt because it describes perfectly the mechanics of this shorter-range and highly accurate pass. It should not be confused with the stab kick, a drop kick popularized by players like Bob Skilton (1960’s). While similar to a drop punt it never-the less has several defining characteristics that give it a distinctive flavor and purpose. It is not designed for maximum distance and accordingly the player uses a variation in drop punt technique with a limited backswing and minimal follow-through. It is a kick in which a rapid punching action is applied to the ball the aim being to pass the ball as quickly and as accurately as possible to a teammate." Page 64 & 65 of THE SCIENCE OF KICKING 1st Edition. Geoffrey Hosford. & Don Meikle published 2007 by B.I.P.E. Publications Pty Ltd. Forward by David Parkin.
The term STAB PUNT was coined 58 years after Jim, as kid, invented it.
The Stab Punt invented in 1949.
I found the stab kick to a stab punt easy! All I had to do was kick the ball just before instead of just after it hit the ground. My father had purchased for his sons their very own football and it only took me a couple of weeks to make the split second adjustment of timing from kicking just before instead of just after the ball hit the ground. STAB PUNT invented. Easy for me. NOTE ! ONLY A SPLIT SECOND ADJUSTMENT. YES I KICKED THE GROUND A FEW TIMES GETTING THERE. I kicked the ball as for a drop kick or a stab kick. That is close to the ground. I revamped the drop kick into a Drop Punt and the Stab Kick into a STAB Punt. I did not kick The Dyer Drop Punt and then revamp his kick. It took me half a season to revamp the drop kick into a drop punt that I was able to kick on the run at pace as a field kick/pass.
Just recently (April 23rd 2013) Jim traced the following advertisement
“STAB PUNT.
The Inventor of the Stab Punt (1949) is interested in hearing from anyone who used this kick pre 1970 Ph. 8743622,”
that I placed in the Age, page 26, bottom right corner, on Thursday the 26th of July, 1990.
This ad appeared on the Sports Page that had an article by David Parkin on the Torpedo Punt. So we have an article describing how to kick the football and an ad by someone who invented a kick in Australian Rules Football on the same page.
Special note! “Jim’s Stab Punt referred to as “Johnson’s “DELIGHTFUL LITTLE DROP PUNT PASS” in 1960.
and the Stab Kick referred to as the
“PRETIEST AND MOST EFFECTIVE INOVATION OF RECENT YEARS”
“THE STAB KICK The Argus 27th June, 1910”
See google "stabpuntjim"

[Woods Of Ypres]

great read re the invention of the stab pass.

does make you wonder, with the continued evolution of the game, is the room for more invention regarding kicking?

I remember a time playing kick to kick with a mate who was also a thai kickboxer at the time. he would stand at 90 degrees, swivel off his rear leg and strike the ball 50m at low trajectory. he told me the power came from the torsion of the hips due to his training. this bloke never played footy in his life. never been influenced by coaches telling him the 'correct' methods.

it did make me wonder, surely this kick could be used as a weapon at the highest level ie pack situation to a leading forward.

[BazBoy]

Read the story of Collingwood playing exhibition game in Tassie and due to the quality of the opporsition discovered the stab pass
And on return to Melbourne soon after had to head down Geelong Rd to play the Cats
They were getting carved up and some one during match stab passed to a forward for a sucsessfull shot on goal --they kept up the stab pass and turned the corner for a win
One kick not mention was the one the great Peter McKenna used namely the drop punt
where you hold the ball vertical and as you kick for a goal--you kick pointy end

[3.14159]

Jimmy Clement was a master of the torp.
I remember Daisy slotting one through from 60 a few seasons ago but its really a weapon of last resort because a shank can go any where and usually does.

The good old stab pass is still seen in the forward line to a leading player but not in the middle
It takes a moment or two for the player to steady himself and can give the tackler an extra moment to pounce.
The flat trajectory means it gets picked far to easily and in the modern game a turn over can cost the team big time.
So it's going the way of the dodo.

In Dermot Brereton's brief visit with the B/W tried to bring the place kick back in.
He'd taken a mark 15 metres out and tried to spot the ball on the mark and an argument with ump ensued and he but was told to go back 10 metres and kick over the mark..
Dermot was a show pony and declined and kicked it conventionally.
On Mondae the AFL banned the place kick.

[3.14159]

The AFL has brought back the flick pass, but only for dealing with our complaints.

[BazBoy]

Yes those kicks dont appear to jell with the modern game!!
I remember a couple of years ago Tye Goldsack kicked off after a point and did a whopping big torpedo right up the spine and it took 18 of the opponents and seventeen Pies by surprise
It lobbed almost at centre ball up area

[neil]

[Bruce Gonsalves]

We had a junior football coach who taught us on wet days to kick a low torpedoe, this not only cut through the wind but but gave the the ball a long skidding bounce when landing. At the time I thought he was mad, but in hindsight, I reckon he was on to something.

[thompsoc]

It is rare to see anybody these days
who is capable of doing a drop kick.
They all do a rugby imitation.
A drop kick requires a dropping of the ball
like you are bouncing the ball.
I can do one!

[i hate carlton]

i reckon if we headed to a country ground and practiced drop kicks and torps for a few weeks, we would blow the competition apart. long torps to contested marks, muscle up with confidence. drop kick accurately. forget the boundary hugging malthouse era.

[stab punt jim]

DROP KICK TO DROP PUNT
Hugh Hinks invented the Drop Punt in 1907. " In The Beginning There Was Carisbrook" by Daryl McLeish, 2001. See pages 342 and 347, Also includes a Picture of Hugh Hinks.
The next recorded is Horrie Clover of Carisbrook, then Carlton, 1920-24 & 1926-31. Despite claims to the contrary, Carlton believed that Clover invented the drop punt. Teammate Newton Chandler believed that Clover first saw the kick used by a teammate at Carisbrook and that he perfected it from there. Page 133 The Encyclopedia of AFL Footballers, Sixth Edition.
Len Metherell, who made his debut in 1930, certainly used the drop punt, and indicated that he had learned it from his father. Recently unearthed in the Australian newspaper a report of the Williamstown v Geelong match at Corio on 26 July in 1884, it is recorded that Julian, of Geelong scored his goal by a new drop kick. Some historians have speculated that this may have been a drop punt. As an unusual footnote, a newspaper report of 1958 makes interesting reading. With the retirement of Dyer in 1949 the drop punt gradually fell into disuse. When Bartle, of Geelong, took a spectacular mark five meters from goal in 1958 and kicked a behind, the Geelong advertiser admonishes:… he foolishly tried a drop punt. 3AW Book of Footy Records 1989 page195/6
Next recorded use was by the Collier Brothers see Page 195 3AW Book of Footy Records.
Jack Dyer adapted the Collier Brothers of Collingwood's Drop Punt which they used as a short pass of around ten yards in place of a hand pass. They only used it to pass the ball to each other over the head of an opponent. See Jack Dyer Captain Blood as told to Brian Hanson, Paul, (London), 1965.
Next recorded use was by Jack Dyer. The Sporting Globe FOOTBALL Book 1948. Page 49: Jack Dyer gets goals with the sillies looking kick in football history.
Page 195 3AW Book of Footy Records ("…Dyer has indicated that he picked up the idea from the Collier brothers, of Collingwood.")
George Goninon kicked eleven goals one behind with drop punts in the 1951 Semi Final against Collingwood. He only used the Drop Punt as a kick for Goal as per telephone conversation with Jim Feb 2010. Born Aug 1927 and came from Club Burnie in Tasmania in 1948. He was a phenomenally accurate kick for goal. George won the VFL goal kicking with 86 goals in 1951(11 goals ahead of John Coleman) He had a very free flowing style of kicking the ball.

The really great early exponent in the VFL was of course Peter McKenna of the Magpies 1965/75. Born 27th of August 1946. “McKenna has had few peers, and once he had gained possession of the ball, usually from a bullet stab pass from Barry Price, or Wayne Richardson, he almost invariably finished things off with consummate precision, typically using a kick, on which THE JURY AT THE TIME WAS STILL OUT, the drop punt,” In the four years that Barry Price was at his best, 1969, 1970,1971and 1972, Mckenna kicked 505 goals. Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

THE DROP KICK WILL BE BACK. Jack Dyer 1965. The drop kick should be a footballer’s basic weapon but UNFORTUNATELY THE TEMPO OF THE GAME IS DRIVING FOOTBALLERS TO USE THE RUNNING PUNT. However there is nothing more certain than the DROP KICK WILL BE BACK. The football cycle is reverting back to classical football and dropkicking to position. Page 161/2. Captain Blood, Jack Dyer. as told to Brian Hansen, Paul, (London), 1965. NOTE; RUNNING PUNT IS USED NOT RUNNING DROP PUNT.
JACK DYER WAS CORRECT IN THAT THE DROP KICK DID COME BACK; BUT IT CAME BACK AS AS THE RUNING DROP PUNT JIM JOHNSON FROM AGE 14 WAS USING IN 1948 TO 1960. The Running Drop Punts and The Stab Punts are used today. All you have to do is recognize them. Stab Punt Jim.

Stab Kick, Australian Rules Football. A short low trajectory pass to a team mate which is kicked just after the ball contacts the ground.

The Argus (Melbourne Vic.) Thursday 27 June 1947 “TROVE”
Stab pass can be troublesome
By DICK REYNOLDS
“How many times have you heard a footballer criticised because he cannot use the stab kick pass? The only fault or criticism of Haydn Bunton, three times winner of the Brownlow Medal, was his kicking.
There is a reason. Bunton was a fast mover, with long strides, and, as I
have found out for myself, it is impossible for this type of player to
use the stab kick pass while moving at top pace. For at least two years
I tried hard to develop the art of passing with a stab kick while running at top speed, but I, at last, had to realise that the only way to do it was to slacken my pace and shorten my stride. I feel certain Bunton had the same experience. He would find, as I did, that he would be caught too often, and would receive many hard knocks. That would not pay. If you analyse the position you will find that those who use the stab kick best are the small men-those who take small steps. We saw Lou Richards in action at Essendon. He does the stab kick beautifully at full pace, but only because he does not have to shorten his stride.”

Jim Johnson feels the same reasons apply today between those who can kick the Stab Punt and those who can’t. In my opinion the vertical droppers of the ball cannot pull the ball back in tight enough to be able to kick a Stab Punt / Daisy Cutter.

Stab Kick Page 164. Captain Blood, Jack Dyer. As told to Brian Hansen, Paul, (London), 1965
Stab kick has been a rapidly failing art--- but thanks to good full-forwards like John Peck 1954-1966 and Doug Wade, 1961-1972, it must come back. Full Forwards need stab passes. Published 1965
Page 165 Drops and Stab Passes are the jewels of football. A drop kick on the run is a more suitable kick for goal than a running punt but from a deliberate shot, the punt is more deadly.
Page 164. Captain Blood, Jack Dyer. as told to Brian Hansen, Paul, (London), 1965. ("…The stab is a feature of the game that should never die. The stab kick cannot be learnt overnight. It's a kick that takes years of practice.")

James, from age 10 to 14, with only limited kicks, gained at school in kick to kick, learned to kick a stab pass, a drop kick, a torpedo punt, a flat punt and a drop punt as a field pass kicked at full pace. Then at 15 in 1949 with his first ever own football it took Jim only a couple of weeks to convert the stab kick into a stab punt. There was only a split second of timing to adjust to make this happen. That is kick the ball just before instead of just after it hit the ground. See Google “Stab Punt Jim”

Stab Kick to Stab Punt in 1949, An Australian Rules football Development.
The Stab kick discovered in Tasmania in 1902. So from 1902 no one did anything extra with the stab kick till Jim, a school kid, converted it into a stab punt in May1949. The stab punt invented by Jim, Aged 15 years, 5ft 2in(157.48 cm.), weighing 8 and 1/4 stone (52.5 kg), and playing for the Mount Evelyn First Eightee in the Yarra Valley Football League.

See "Who invented the drop punt Australian Rules Football - Answers.com"……Researched & Written by Jim Johnson.

See "27 Jun 1910 - "THE STAB KICK." A FOOTBALL DEVELOPMENT". With two Comments on this site inserted by Jim Johnson. One on the 15th November 2013 and the other on the 15th of April 2014. These were inserted before this article was brought forward on google.
See "Stab Punt Jim" for further information.