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Cam 
Nick's BB Member #166
Joined: 10 May 2002
Location: Springvale
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| Post subject: Richmond Will Miss The Eight & Rupert Is Not The Answer |  |
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C'mon flamers here i am.
1) The bubble has burst, the Tiges will be on the slide from here on in. I sense a disturbance in their fragile self-confidence and this will lead to similar performances to last night. Taking nothing away from the Swans - who'd have thought?
2) Mick is playing the kids and hence don't be surprised if Betheras (much as I love him) will not play again unless we have alot of injuries. We are seeing Fraser in the Ruck, we are seeing Lokan, Shaw, Didders, Leon ala Micks Press conference play through some hard times and grow instead of playing those he knows the limits of eg Richardson, Betheras, Freeborn.
Thank goodness he is taking this approach because this way we will be in the serious running for a flag in 04, or 05. Of course we could peak in July this year and storm to a flag, but thats another story yet to be written.
Last year we did overachieve. If Port were not such head jobs we would have (like most of us predicted) went boom boom out in straight sets. This is not taking anything away from the magnificent, gutsy, inspiring performances during last years finals.
Sorry, Betheras is not the answer. Cloke, Cole, Didak, Lokan, Leon, Shaw & Josh will be, just give them time. |
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Adz
Joined: 18 May 2003
Location: Heidelberg
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| I don't think we over achieved. We were top four last year all through the season. I was hoping this year we'd pull as WCE 91,92. They lost the flag then won it. Hopefully next year (hopefully lions will not be any good) we can finish top 2 with our experianced boys. GO PIES! |
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MissMagpie_20
BUCKS SIMPLY THE BEST!
Joined: 02 Oct 2002
Location: Ballarat
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Yep, I dont rate Richmond at all.
_________________
Those with the most invested are the last to surrender!
So when i'm lying in my bed, thoughts running through my head and i feel that love is dead...
IM LOVING BUCKLEY INSTEAD! |
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M@®© 
1972
Joined: 13 Apr 2003
Location: Victoria - Rowville
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Season is so opened, i hope all the interstate teams dont make the top 6 otherwise its gunna be a poor season 4 us Vics. I Still think we can make the top 4 but only if we beat these lower sides like we should but footy is a funny game.
http://collingwood.rules.it/
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My Local Footy Stats Site |
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JLC 
Joined: 30 May 2000
Location: Keysborough still representing Hot Pies
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Richmond are still a chance to make the 8. Considering the injuries they have suffered they have done extremely well so far. Lets us not forget that no team has won after playing in Perth the previous week.
Betheras is still an important part of the Collingwood team. Rupert plays with insenity and that is something we lack at the moment. Its a pity Rupert isnt given much of a chance.
Last year we didnt over achieve in the home and away matches. We only finished fourth. In the finals we played some good football and earnt our victories.
A team of over achievers is the Kangaroos IMO. You have to admire the way they play and go about their business.
However this year if we finish 7th or lower then i think we have definately under achieved. We have only had one significant injury so far and thats Lockyer. One of our prime forwards is enjoying the best spell of his career so far. Its up to the players to turn the season around. The ability is there its more of the application in playing four quarters of football week in and week out.
jlc
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The Torres bounce is officially dead. You are walking alone now Fernando. |
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Molly
Joined: 25 Nov 2002
Location: Melbourne
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i dont know about richmond at this stage - imo they are yet to prove themselves. So far they have beaten the dogs, freo (in melb), saints, hawks, ess and melb. They were done by us, port, WC and sydney.
I just dont know if they're capable of maintaining the pace - maybe they've peaked already?? |
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peter_pies4ever
Joined: 21 Feb 2003
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
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| If Richmond don't beat the kangaroos this week then they will be on the slide! |
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neds elbow
Joined: 29 Sep 2002
Location: melbourne, victoria
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| Richmond will probably finish top 4 due mostly to their soft draw. |
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The Prototype
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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Pied Piper 
Joined: 20 May 2003
Location: Pig City
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| JLC wrote: | | Betheras is still an important part of the Collingwood team. Rupert plays with insenity and that is something we lack at the moment. Its a pity Rupert isnt given much of a chance |
Funniest thing I've read all day, JLC, thanks for that. Do you mean Rupert plays with intensity - or insanity?  
Seriously, I think Cam is right. Rupert - and Freeborn, Richardson et al - are players who have shown what they're capable of and while solid, are unlikely to be the ones to take us to the next level. This is also why Collingwood let Carl Steinfort go at the end of 2002: he was told he was unlikely to get a senior game and he moved on accordingly.
I'm a big admirer of Rupert Betheras. He's worked very hard to get the most out of limited natural attributes, and he's an interesting individual with a broader range of interests than your average footballer. What's more, he's played some excellent games - his whitewashing of Brett Montgomery in the qualifier last year comes to mind.
But the reality is, as hard as he tries, and as much as we love yelling "Ruuuup!" when he gets the ball, he's not getting it too often. He has been unproductive for us in most of the recent games he's played. Compare his recent stats to those from 2000-2001. The competition has improved both inside and outside the team, and he's in danger of being left behind.
The same goes for Collingwood themselves. As much as I hate to admit it, the weekend's game against Port has shown us up. Calling us pretenders sounds harsh, but that's what others are going to say. As MM predicted, almost all the mid-to lower range teams from last year have improved markedly and right now we are struggling to go with them.
Port showed they're a different side to last year and they've learned plenty. In last year's qualifier we exposed their softness; this time they beat us fair and square, with at least a third of their best 22 out of the side. They will be genuine contenders come September and full credit to them.
Now for the good news, and this is also where I agree with Cam. Whether you think we were lucky in making the GF last year or not, there is no doubt that much of the team is still very raw. If we won last year it would have been the baby Bombers of 93 all over again, but against much stiffer opposition.
More than a third of the team have less than 50 games under their belts. Even a supposed senior like Paul Licuria has only just gone past the 100. Now look at Brisbane's list, or Port's. Brisbane's list boasts literally thousands of games' worth of experience. Most of them debuted between 93-97. They've peaked collectively and they've stayed together by taking pay cuts to keep under the cap.
(And set a great example for other clubs in doing so. Essendon didn't do it and they fell apart. Remember Hird, bemoaning the loss of his mates as they were traded away? But if the likes of he and Lloyd weren't on such fat contracts, they may still have been playing alongside him.)
To get back to the point, Didak (who is probably due for a calming spell at Willy), Lokan, Cole, Shaw, McGough et al are at the very beginning of their careers. Fraser, Johnson, Davis, Lonie and even Tarrant are still learning their craft. But we have to keep playing them and we have to cop a few losses along the way.
We won't have too many early draft picks for a while, so how much these kids improve will determine whether or not Collingwood wins a flag in the next few years, or simply becomes another competitive but ultimately unsuccessful GF team like Sydney 96, St Kilda 97 and Melbourne 2000.
I hope that puts things in perspective after a bad week. I'm sure all of us have done some soul-searching but The Weed says think not just of next week, but of the next three years - GO PIES!
The Weed
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"The greatest thing that could happen to the nation is when we get rid of all the media. Then we could live in peace and tranquillity, and no one would know anything." - Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen |
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AnthonyC
Joined: 09 Aug 2002
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
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Sorry weed, I'm not discussing whether Rupe is or isn't the answer (although I will say we haven't done too well without him, not that that means anything), your comments:
the_weed wrote:
| Quote: | | He has been unproductive for us in most of the recent games he's played. Compare his recent stats to those from 2000-2001 |
are not really fair I believe. Check out his stats. 2002 was a pretty good year. This year he has had limited opportunities. Poor form, maybe, but you can't get the ball if you're not playing.
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Go Pies! |
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Pied Piper
Joined: 20 May 2003
Location: Pig City
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Interesting Anthony, thanks for the link. Having it all there in front of me was handy. In terms of pure ball-winning Rup's rate has declined, as I suggested, but I agree he does the 1%'s well and he was good in the finals, esp. against PA as previously stated. But my point was he doesn't have the same degree of improvement left in him as the other players, and consequently as the competition improves - both for a place in the side and overall - he is finding it tougher. In the longer term, which my post was focusing on, he may not be the answer (as Cam originally suggested) - Weed
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"The greatest thing that could happen to the nation is when we get rid of all the media. Then we could live in peace and tranquillity, and no one would know anything." - Sir Joh Bjelke-Petersen |
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