Josh Fraser

Blanch · Joined: 01 Jul 2002 Location: Back in Perth!

Cam, you are right. Fact is when Josh went into the ruck the center clearances were something like 8-1 to the eagles. I heard the commentator mention 37-30 in favour of us half way through the third qtr. Josh moved into the ruck in the 2nd qtr and "nullified, if not beat Gardiner".

Gardiner killed us early when Mckee was in ruck. Josh killed his influence for the rest of the game.

Brown26 · Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 10:12 am

I think you have to realise that gardiner is the best ruckman in the AFL, and is likely to win the brownlow this year rightly or wrongly, so it is difficult for a 21 y.o. no matter how good to throw his body into the game all day. Josh didn't get many round the ground touches - gees, maybe he was playing on the best ruckman in the league! Think perhaps he'd have to run with him a bit?

Josh is a great player at ground level for a ruckman - probably best in the AFL, maybe second to darcy, but he's only 21, 21 y.o. kids, no matter how many years they've been playing, don't always make the right decision.

To bring up anzac day 2000 is ludicrous, if you're only as good as your last game, I think three seasons ago is a bit too far back to critisise. I agree Josh needs to improve and is down on confidence, but I think that will all come with time, droppping him to the seconds may ruin him. Or it may not, but none of us know the guy well enough to make that choice. And against St Kilda I think he'll play if nothing else to expose their lack of height and help make up for losing Presti.

I don't think we lost the game this week in the ruck. We lost the first quarter in the ruck, but then we got that back to half half, we lost the rest of the game due to poor disposal, possibly because of fatigue, which is no excuse, just a reason.

Josh does not need to improve for us to win. He will improve though, anyway, no matter what people say or do to him.

- Ben

swooper · Joined: 24 Sep 2002 Location: Melbourne

For whats its worth- Prototype- I read your post and I didnt think you were bagging Josh. I believe he did have a very good game Sat, I would love to see him at CHF moreso, but he is young and will improve - and I think a little confidence will go a long way with him. Give him time and watch it grow.

Lone Ranger · Joined: 02 Apr 2003 Location: Macedon Ranges

GreatGonzo · Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 4:44 pm

From the HUN stats

J.FRASER

6 Kicks
9 Handballs
2 Marks
8 Clearances
0 (!) Clangers
4 Tackles
0.1 Goals/Behinds

Rating 118

Gardiner

12 Kicks
2 Handballs
7 Marks
4 Clearances
3 Clangers
2 Tackles
1.0 Goals/Behinds

rating 128

The rating is only higher because of the goal. Josh was close to BOG for the Pies until the last 10 minutes, when he was clearly running out of puff.

Pied Piper · Joined: 20 May 2003 Location: Pig City

chalky · Joined: 06 Feb 2003 Location: victoria

Posted elsewhere that Healey "on the couch" thought it was ludicrous that Gardner got BOG by some media scribes. 15mins football does not cut it.
Lone ranger is correct, media has its favorites. Walls continues to run the old "ruckman" chestnut and in the media frenzy that ensues, they beat up on a vulnerable Collingwood side without a "darling".(perhaps Tarrant)
Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.
Losses are not the fault of the ruckmen. I will go so far as to say that a ruckman eg Darcy/Gardner playing for Collingwood will not win us a flag alone. They need 21 others all over the ground playing consistent football.
Oh, Oh, what have I done?!!

Blanch · Joined: 01 Jul 2002 Location: Back in Perth!

Apologies Prototype. I can't help but feel I turned this into a "bag Josh, don't bag josh" thread with my first post. It was not intended.

HAL · Posted: Tue May 20, 2003 5:23 pm

It seemed like that, though. . .

Blanch · Joined: 01 Jul 2002 Location: Back in Perth!

Did it?

scoobydoo · Joined: 10 Feb 2003

sorry guy's,maybe i was misunderstood.i dont think Josh had a bad game at all,in fact like most other's i thought it was one of his better games this year,but Gardiner was still voted B.O.G in 3 different paper's by 4 different people.Josh did nullify Gardiners dominence,but not to the extent that he beat him.Mckee was slaughtered,Josh did well but he didnt beat him.If he had, he would have been slightly more dominent than Gardiner,& he wasn't.

Daniel · Joined: 22 Apr 2003

In my opinion Gardiner was nowhere near BOG....

and what's more I would never expect Josh to beat Gardiner for the simple fact that Gardiner is the best tap ruckman in the AFL, Josh is still learning and body wise is nowhere near as developed as Gardiner.

However I watched Josh's ruckwork closely against Gardiner, partly cos I think that Josh is a pretty proud guy and would have loved being given no chance.... and Josh did a FANTASTIC job.... the only time he was beated would have been the last 10 mins of the 4th.... where Gardnier was always going to step. Gardiner did step out, but was nowhere near as influential as in the opening of the first quarter where he was palming the ball to teammates.... instead he was going the big german trying to gain ground. That's partly a credit to Josh, cos I thought he almost cut even with Gardnier in tapouts to teammates while they played on each other.

Around the ground Josh was even with Gardiner and at ground level BEAT him.

For me, it was a very good game in the ruck from Josh.... and I suspect one of his best in this position since beign at the club.