MMs post-match comments

[Banksy]

Absolute Tallant from what i've read on your views regarding MM you're just looking to upset a few people .
Let me remind you that when MM took over as coach,we were wooden spooners thanks greatly to the worst coach in the history of our club,(Tony Shaw).Three years later he took as to a grand final....which we gave an almighty shake.Hopefully in the near future he can coach our great club to a premiership.
You take MM out of the equation and what have you got?....a ship without a rudder...plus the players respond to him.
I bet if i was to ask you.......Who would you rather coach Collingwood instead of MM?....you'll be lost for names.

[AbsoluteTallant]

Hi Banksy

I'm not sure what you mean but the last thing I want to do is hurt anyone.

Once again people have read my comments as disruptive. Why is it that people don't seem to feel I have a right to question the status quo?

Where did I say "let's sack MM"? Nowhere, but those are the words you seem to be putting in my mouth.

Tony Shaw wasn't a great coach by any means but you can only do what you can with the cattle you've got and we recruited shithouse for most of the early 90s. MM's reign has nicely coincided with the maturing of several players not available to TS including Lockyer, Tarrant, Rocca was only a baby when TS had him, Scotto... the list is longish.

During his reign MM has benefitted from the excellent scouting of Judkins in picking up Lonie, Leon, Didak...

The primary contributions MM has made directly to our playing talent have been Clement/Holland for Paul Williams and Andrew Williams for Adkins. Didak was an obvious choice and we got him by virtue of finishing in the bottom four. Fraser was again by virtue of poor performance. Sure MM would have had a role in convincing Cheesey O'Bree to come home but who got the better of the Mal Michael and Nick Davis trades?

I don't think we should sack MM, where did I write that? WHERE?

What I would like to see is us employing another up and coming coach in the Laidley mould to help MM and ensure he has some fresh thoughts to mix in with his own.


Anyway I'm not sure how you get the impression I'm trying to hurt anyone Banksy. I'm very sorry to anyone who is hurt by my comments. I don't mean that at all. Can anyone who is hurt by my comments please say so? Otherwise I can't learn how to perhaps frame my comments differently or not make any.

I can only think that maybe people are hurt by me being critical of our great club? I find that a bit sad - that people cannot read constructive criticism of our club without being hurt but I understand it.

Please if anyone is hurt by my comments please say so.

[ramjet21]

AT - pretty accurate i think. good to see some reasoned opinion.
as for MM's statements after the game, i wouldnt read too much into them. have to admit i was surprised at them but MM has been around long enough to know how to use the media to get into his players. i would be worried if he had any other attitude than needing to improve in every aspect of the game to continue to compete for a flag. as for the 'ultimatum' type statement that attitude was made in, i wouldnt stress too much. i think he definately feels taking collingwood to a flag is his biggest challenge to date and he wont rest til he gets it.

[mgh3536]

There are two points here, firstly on balance you would have to accept MM burst was just that, a burst and reality check for the boys, we carry no scars from the loss in Brissy

Secondly tactical nous, we are no privvy a lot of the times to the ones he gets right, but it is very clear when he gets it wrong (continuing with Cloke on Brown last weekend).

I truely believe we make fundamental skills mistakes. We do not really have a problem with winning the ball. What we do have a problem with is Wakelin, Obree running onto left foot, Lonie and Johnson being caught on right foot. These are players who are bringing the ball forward (mistakenly on their wrong foot), it should be Clement, Buckley, Woewodin, Burns delivering the ball into a top flight forward line.

I believe there is a clear distinction at the moment between our mid fielders and Brisbanes. Voss, Lappin, Akermanis and Black, can all win and deliver the ball. We have Buckley and Burns who can do that, the others are either primarily winners of the ball or deliverers of the ball. IMHO

Do not forget Brisbane are generally considered as the best team to have played the game, in our last three performances it has been a win and two close losses, it will only take 2 or 3 one%'s to change the win loss ratio against the best team to have played the game to 50/50.

I reckon MM is aware of that and his burst was designed to let the players know that a few of them are on notice.

[STOKA35]

1/ Is afl football the highest level of competition? yes

2/ what is the role of the players ? to win premierships this is what they are paid for.

3/what is mick malthouse's role? to win premierships teach footballers to be better footballers to get the best out of your players that is what he is paid for.

4/your boss and employee is not happy with your work place performance absouloute tallent what do you do?
a/ listen to him and do what is required
b/when he turns around you say your full of it and continue what you are doing and dont improve
c/take it offensively and leave

5/If you are happy with the level we are playing content at staying at this level we are at the moment maybe we should give up or almalgamate with the parkside magpies or stawell magpies or hahndorf magpies or say to supporters we dont want to improve are you happy with us just rolling up on saturday if we win we win we don't care?

to me mick can say what he wants he is the coach that is what he is paid for the end of the day every team every player/coach is only remembered for one thing-PREMIERSHIPS

[natkingcole]

Concerning Licca, if you work hard enough at the ball as he does the couple of mistakes you make during the game are forgivable in terms of winning or losing the game. The reason we didn't win was because our bottom 5 or 6 players didn't work hard enough at the ball when compared to Brisbane's bottom 5 or 6 players. I think MM's comments were directed at certain players at the club who are taking it too easy, accepting that we now a top side without going the extra step of doing what is required to becoming a genuine premiership chance. As Stoka said it's all about winning premierships, not just playing finals and I don't expect MM is going to just hang around if we can't go that extra step.

[Hiya-and-Higher]

Some great comments in response to AT.

Constructive Criticism vs Negativity.

Negativity means you pick on a player's flaw and say he's no good because of it. There are only a handful of 'complete' footballers who are champions at every aspect of the game. You could list 100 characteristics you would like your players to possess and every one of them will be deficient in some of them. Then if you're down on that player you highlight those particular ones. That's negativity.

What I see is that a player comes to the club with infinitely more ability than any 'expert' poster here has in playing top level football. Many are 17 to 20 year olds. How many games of pressure football have they played? How many times a year do they actually stand the AFL's best from *each* club? (1 - 2 per year) - they beat you - you learn from it - you wait 15 weeks to try to match them again. It takes time.

So they need to have a chance to *learn* to deal with it, and smart talented players will do so. Too many baggers say so-and-so is too slow, has no left foot, is too short...followed by let's get rid of him and get a new list of ready made players who are taller and faster and ambidexterous...yeah right...there are 20 Buckley's waiting for us out there if only we had decent recruiters. Lets all our experts go out and find them for us.

In the mean time how about cheering our guys on when they have a bad game. I know I would lift my effort if all my friends and supporters said to me...hey don't worry mate...we know you can do it! Kick butt next time!

Certainly I'll tell anyone who thinks I'm shit, to get stuffed. And if they say that there's not even any point me trying because i'm no good, no matter how much effort I put in, where am I get my lift from?

I bet you one thing. If Leon hasn't had a kick by three quarter time, and the crowd of 50,000 starts yelling Leon go! He'd run through a brick wall.

[Northern Pie]

Murray????

[AbsoluteTallant]

Hi All

Ok, the last few replies have highlighted the same old theories on my comments. I've been copping that 'negativity' stuff for so long it's not funny. Maybe there's merit to it. Don't worry such criticism doesn't escape me.

As for rambling yeah I probably started rambling, however apart from an inflammatory comment such as the 'bludging' one, I stick by what I said.

Hiya-and-Higher you act like any criticism is negative and will destroy the individual players and therefore the team and the club.

I don't know, you can see my criticism as purely negative if you like but I try to make it constructive crticism. For example the first thing I want to say in relation to Collingwood is asking Licuria why he guides the ball onto his boot completely different to almost every other AFL player? Then I'd suggest he changes that for a while and sees how it goes. But I'm not able to do that am I?

As for Johnson I said that he has been better up the ground but I am also realistic (many people seem to class my 'realistic' as 'negative') in that it's pretty easy these days to get the uncontested ball but not so easy to deliver it. In the early stages on thursday, Johnson was getting plenty of uncontested ball accross half back from kickins and such, but was he delivering it? No.

Anyway switching from individual players to your comments on motivation and recruiting, I agree that we are possibly expecting too much from kids, but your assertion that there are 20 Buckley's out there is pretty ridiculous and I think it highlights our dilemma. Everyone is putting pressure on the current lot because we know when Bucks retires we're possibly back to a middle of the road side.

Can anyone tell me that we are more likley to win a flag without Bucks than with him?

Assuming that we need Bucks we can have as few as 1,2,3 or 4 years to win a flag. Hence there's less time to let kids develop, unfortunately.

There's even less time to tolerate shite players.

I've highlighted the world we are playing in - Brisbane is between 2-4 stars better off than they should be, allowing them to push for a tiple Premiership. We are 2-6 players less than a Premiership side, I feel. Nothing would make me happier to be proved wrong on that front but you can call me negative however I just think I'm being more realitsic.

Then again, who wants reality? I'd much rather the boys overachieve beyond what would realistically seem possible, but I'm not convinced they can over-achieve enough to tank Brisbane.

Don't forget we also got tanked by Adelaide, the other big Premiership threat.

[Hiya-and-Higher]

Firstly AT. My 20 Bucks was 'tongue in cheek'. What I am saying is that there are very few of those complete footballers out there. However, leaving aside the freaks, there are a big big stack of players who are not too bad.

What I'm also saying is that our playing list is it for this year. These are our guys. We won't be changing things until next season. So to call someone a 'shite player' while claiming to be realistic I find irritating. This is our family. These are our warriors. As a team they can do anything with the right training and SPIRIT!...and that spirit comes as much from we the supporters as from their own inner character.

As for comments that once a bad kick always a bad kick...who makes this stuff up? You can improve ANYTHING and EVERYTHING...especially when these guys already KNOW how to play football. Every one of these guys was a champion before they joined Collingwood. They were the cream at their level.

AFL is like test cricket. It takes adaptation to handle the intensity and pressure when you are playing against others who are just as good as you are. Then you need something extra, character, confidence, team spirit, tactics, practice,practice,practice, and supporters who lift you up when you're down.

[AbsoluteTallant]

Hi Hiya

I agree that we are pretty much limited to this list, though we could place Davidson and Lockyer on the long term injury list and promote a rookie or two.

On the timing issue, there is a difficulty when following football because we see so little of the off season and hear next to nothing of the recruiters so when do we criticise? The only time we can see how well we are doing in terms of player personnel is during the season when they are competing against the best.

So far I'm pretty convinced that we've drafted only one first year player: Lokan, who is not the sort of player we need.


When can I say that we are doing the wrong thing? When can I criticise the players?

To try and shield the players from criticism is a bit ridiculous as well. What do you think their opponents talk to them about every week? Each of their deficiencies is highlighted by their opponents, sledging style, every week. If the players haven't got the mental toughness to overcome criticism on bulletin boards such as this, how are they going to have the mental toughness to overcome the sledging of opponents?

I wish you were right about all it taking was spirit but I think there's much more to it than that, like the AFL corrupting the player system and such.

"the cream at their level" is irrelevant because they are no longer at that level. Time and again players have come and gone because they can't make the next step. The best clubs must make the right decisions on players in terms of how long do you give them and when do you cut your losses? IMHO, MM and co are making some dubious decisions in this respect.

I disagree you can improve everything. Take a look at Jason Wild, where is he now? He gave it everything he possibly could but in the end wasn't good enough. I'm not the only one who believes this so if you think you are just making me out to be an ignorant negative loner I think that's false. Just now Tim Watson (admittedly a shitty coach) mentioned that Nathan Burke is struggling atm in part because his kicking has never been a strength and the need to direct kicks precisely is now more prevalent than when Burke started.

On the other hand sure there are plenty of players that run around having one major skill deficiency and they play for 10 years or more, however those players tend to play for mediocre sides like Richmond (Gaspar, Kellaway, Richardson). Those players don't tend to play in teams that defeat sides like Brisbane's current superstar studded lineup.

You mention the timing issue. Well frankly I think we'd be better off making some hard decisions and chopping some players now, giving others time to gain experience and improve.

Everyone is so sensitive about criticising or writing off players so I won't mention any names.

Go Pies!

[AbsoluteTallant]

Fair point Assasin.

I do however enjoy footy. Watching skillful players like Leon, Bucks, Clement, Pebbles, Tarrant etc...

I love that.

Sorry if I've depressed anyone.

[lethalburns]

I doubt Mick has any intention of jumping ship. Let us not forget he came to the club when it was at a level of mediocrity not when it was a primed unit.

What he is trying to create here is a culture that doesnt accept losing easily. It is psychology. Dont take everything so literally especially when it is coming from a frustrated person.

He obviously feels that the club still has some sort of negative stigma which affects our efficency. In effect I think outbursts such as these build a 'hard-ass' image for the Pies. I personally think we need that sort of belief in ourselves to knock over Brisbane. Lethal frequently thorns his side when he feels they are under performing, and no one complains.

[couragous cloke]

tessa your name is disgusting, why have it??? u bag tara for her nic, now look at yours, kids come on this web site u know! not happy, esspecially after u dispute tara's.

[chalky]

Geez, what's going on tonight? Did I miss something?

MM rarely loses his cool post match. Every phrase seems carefully considered and I suspect, at times, even staged. You could feel the words selected were prepared in order to provoke a reaction from players and staff.
It was obvious he was already preparing for next week vs ess, loading the gun so to speak.
We've come so far with MM at the helm that it would be foolish to second guess him at this point. We can, of course, have our own opinions but bottom line- we've got to trust in his experience and profound football knowledge.
The amount of time the staff put in pre match, I'm sure they have gone through most scenarios.
Having said that there are some really astute posters out there and I do enjoy reading their particular take on the variables faced by MM on match day eg move Leon further up field etc
Have faith guys, there is a plan to take us to the top. Just be patient