Mark McGough

[TRELOS]

how come he isnt playing??? is he injured or anything or just down on form.
I didnt see him in teh Wiz Cup @ all either

[AbsoluteTallant]

Mark McGough played the whole second half (I haven't seen the first half yet) for Willie in the middle. He got a fair bit of the ball but showed his usual weakness of slow speed and poor kicking.

I would not expect much from McG.

[Dale61]

In fact, McG played the full game for Williamstown. He did kick a goal, but other than that, he did very little.

Read my comprehensive report in the VFL forum.

[foxy]

err cmon Dale, MCG started off pretty poorly but he definently got back into the game in the second half. consistently handballed it effectively into space, ended up with a heap of possessions. and his goal was a ripper. i think he had 29 touches. fletcher got 35; everyone seems to love him but some of his kicking was woeful.

[Cakewalk]

It's amazing the fact MCG has got to AFL level , but his kicking is below par at VFL level.Their is no doubting he's a ball magnet , maybe his first option should be to handball?

[Cam]

Ala Dual-Brownlow medallist Diesel Williams and Single Medallist Libba, Copeland Winner T. Shaw - McGougha will do big things in his AFL life without being a superb kick. He's an excellent reader of the play, and handballs like Magic Johnson could pass.

[AbsoluteTallant]

Hi Cam

All the players you speak of are from another era.

I'm glad that everyone can see McG's weaknesses. At least we have consensus. The bizarre thing about his kicking is that he's equally as average on both feet!

In an era of power midfieders like McLeod, Voss, Cousins, Yze and dry matches at indoor stadiums for 1/3 of the year, I don't think McG has much of a future.

Big call I know but just calling it as I see it. Once again I'd be more than happy if I'm proved wrong.

If only we could mix the ball magnet factor of McG with the kicking ability and run of Scotto.

[Brown26]

MCG is how old? You can teach kicking, you can even learn (and train) how to run faster. You will never never ever learn to be a ball magnet.

This is a learning point in MCG's career. Every player has them. When did Licca become so good? In his first season? Second? Wait and see...

- Ben

[AbsoluteTallant]

Hi Brown26

McG is 18. Yes it's incredibly early days to write anyone off. However I don't believe you can correct kicking. Brian Taylor suggested as much on telly the other day. He mentioned that he doesn't belive a player's natural technique should be (or can be?) totally reinvented, but rather he tries to make minor adjustments. Now Barge isn't necessarily an expert on kicking but it's a viewpoint from somoene who is employed as a skills coach, all be it at Footscray.

It's funny that you mention Licuria who I think is another very average kick.

You know what? I think all supporters have their favourite types of players. I think some people, perhaps including yourself, only really enjoy watching - and therefore only rate - players who are in and under engine room types. Fair enough I suppose except that I think we need to find players that are excellent in a whole variety of skills and are capable of playing a whole bunch of different styles. These players may be rare but we should still strive to find and sign them, I reckon

Your namesake was a classic example. His kicking was just above par but he had the competitiveness and athleticism to play anywhere from full forward in a premiership to full back on Gary Ablett. In the meantime he won accolades on the wing in State matches.

Again these players are rare but that's the sort of quality we need.

In these days of footballing athletes, rather than athletic footballers, is there a place for McG? I certainly hope so but I really have very serious doubts.

[Cam]

Hi Rohan

McGough will win the Brownlow before he's 27, mark my words. And he could well have a norm smith as well. Writing off an 18 year old Anzac medallist - some people are just ridiculous.

Mind you these same kind of people might have rid us of Licuria, Fraser, Benny J, Rocca, McKee, O'Bree, Leon, Tarrant, Rupert, Scotland, Lockyer, Prestigiacomo, Alan Richardson, Jamie Turner, Shane Kerrison, Doug Barwick, James Manson, B.T. - even Dennis Banks...

If people don't think a young up & coming Diesel Williams could still get a kick in today's AFL... i think you'd be mistaken. You can't teach talent. Skills improve with practice, age & experience, talent you are born with.

In an perfect world with perfect teams you have perfect players. In this world you have your superstars, semi-stars, your grunts & your taggers. You'll never have a team who has 18 good kicks, Brisbane relieve pressure on themselves by creating it, mobbing & crunching, if your scrutinise them all in isolation i'm sure there are the not so greats skill-wise amongst them. How can you doubt Lickas value after the 2 great seasons he has had, after leading us to a win over Port adelaide in the finals.

[foxy]

well said Cam.

the funny thing is, nearly all of MCG's kicks this year (in the seniors) were fine. i don't recall him stuffing up one kick. he actually worked his ass off on his kicking over summer.

the kid can seriously play.

[Dale61]

Foxy, I based my comments on what I saw on tape and although he did get many possessions, how many actually found the target? Handballing to space is great as long as your team mate can run on to it. A lot of those possessions would have been classed as non-effective and to nobody's advantage.

In saying that, he didn't play poorly, just nowhere near how he should at VFL level. We are all entitled to a bad day, but McG wasn't alone on Saturday. I'm sure he'll bounce back and start to dominate games like he did late last season.

[natkingcole]

I stood in the outer watching the Port game and thought McGough was one of the few players to put in over the four quarters ( the other being Fletcher). The surprising thing was that I thought more of his kicks hit their mark than his handballs. I don't think the other Willi players are used to the lightening handpasses that McGough gives off. The other player who impresses me is Cloke who I thought slaughtered Hale and I was surprised when Cloke went off towards the end of each quarter ( is it his fitness?), as that was the only time Hale got a kick.

[MarkT]

Sometimes I really Collingwood supporters were more realistic. Not all our players are superstars and not all will progress at the rate or to the extent we would like. N.Davis was and L.Davis is an example of a disspointing progression. LD has 2003 to get it together or face a trade as others push for selection. Ditto Shaw and Scottland.

Having said that, Mark McGough will have a long AFL career but will always be subject to speculation as to his real value. He will get plenty of the ball. He has been likened to Diesel Williams in that he reads the play, makes the play and gets a lot of the ball. The difference is that, contrary to popular opinion, Williams was an excellent kick. His kicking started out adequate at best but became excellent. The reason he did not kick a lot when he was younger was because he had no pace to get clear and he got most of his posessions in the pack. He developed great hands very quickly because he had to due to his game style.

McGouh is similar in that regard but will never ever be a good kick. The best he can hope for is to be adequate a-la T.Shaw. No real distance but accurate short. The kid will develop and get more time to dispose of the ball and gradually improve. He will never be anythying more than an average kick though and we have to accept that if he is to be part of the senior team. I've watched footy and Collingwood since the '70's and I cannot think of a single player apart from Lowe that ever went from being a bad kick to a reliable kick. Make no mistake McGough is a bad kick. Lowe makes 1 out of god knows how many. Lica has gone from a pathetic kick to acceptable with the kind of hard work and dedication that comes along very rarely. When I watch him, his technique seems mile ahead of McGough though. Ben Johnson is and always be a poor kick as well.

The trouble with McGough is that when he plays with Johnno, Lica, Cloke, O'Bree, Cole and Molloy, there are too many turnovers. These guys cannot kick to the standard required these days. My biggest problem is the number of times you will turn over a ball in a game with that number of sub standard kicks in the team. IMO we cannot have them all in the team and hope to win a premiership. Someone and probably more than one must be replaced with better skilled player(s).

[where's kent butcher]

I was at the game on Saturday and maybe I saw it differently but Mcgough played a great second half. His handball is his greatest asset but his kicking has improved out of sight. One of the better senior players on the day.