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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| 3.14159 wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Well I was watching channel two the other day (by accident of course!) and he explained his reasoning, made a lot of sense, panic was mentioned, making it worse, I'll think clearer when I'm soberer |
| 3.14159 wrote: |
If you want to understand the reasoning behind continued negative gearing you need to be drunk. |
| think P wrote: | Um?
Why because you think I'm too stupid to get it sober?
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I've never thought you were stupid,self righteous and stubborn maybe, but not stupid!.
Governments giving money away like that, ie making property only affordable to those with money to buy property is a travesty of the taxation system!
Super co contributions to those all ready putting $100,000 in Super to save on pensions is logic bent and twisted beyond belief!
Sydney property prices rose a massive 12.4 per cent in 2014 and have continued to surge, climbing a staggering three per cent in March alone.
However, Hockey denied that Sydney has become 'unaffordable' – pointing out that people are still buying properties.
'No. Look, if housing were unaffordable in Sydney, no one would be buying it,' he argued.
Opposition Leader Bill Shorten says Hockey has insulted families with a simplistic response.
'How are Australians supposed to find the good jobs that pay more when unemployment is at its highest levels in more than a decade under his government?' Mr Shorten told AAP.
| tony Abbott wrote: | In a bid to show his government was not out of touch, Mr Abbott said he felt for hard-working paramedics and nur-ses who saved lives but could not afford to buy a home.
He conceded even he had found it difficult living in Sydney on a wage far greater than the average Australian. “Even as a cabinet minister, sometimes it’s hard to pay a Sydney mortgage and I know over the years I’ve earned a lot more than the average person,’’ he said. |
| think p wrote: | | And yeah David's objection is obvious, yada yada yada and so is my reply, it's our money our kids our choice, the tax is paid, so it's none of your godamn business! |
Who the government gives tax-payers money to is no one's business but those that get it?
WOW! You sound like Bronwyn Bishops love child!
| Quote: | Sydney property prices rose a massive 12.4 per cent in 2014 and have continued to surge, climbing a staggering three per cent in March alone.
However, Hockey denied that Sydney has become 'unaffordable' – pointing out that people are still buying properties.
'No. Look, if housing were unaffordable in Sydney, no one would be buying it,' he argued.
Opposition Leader Bill Shorten says Hockey has insulted families with a simplistic response.
'How are Australians supposed to find the good jobs that pay more when unemployment is at its highest levels in more than a decade under his government?' Mr Shorten told AAP.
Senator Penny Wong labelled Hockey, the federal member in North Sydney, 'out of touch'. |
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3116437/Go-good-job-pays-Treasurer-Joe-Hockey-s-advice-young-people-struggling-afford-buy-home.html#ixzz41XAvmevK
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What happened to the great Australian dream of secure empoyment and a 1/4 acre to call home?
It went up in a cloud of industry shut-downs, record unemployment and negatively GEARED smoke and mirrors!!! |
Um, you mean give us a small deduction against the huge tax we pay right? As a family we don't get any tax payers money, we get reductions in things like uni fees and an interest free hecs loan like everyone else. That's it.
Funny I remember being told here once it's none of my business where the tax money we pay is spent!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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I'm not sure who told you that, but of course government tax policy is your business. It's the business of all voting citizens. How can it not be?
| think positive wrote: | So why r u so envious? Or resentful? Yeah I know I know your not, your looking out for the common man. Well guess what, this is the story of the common man who stuck his neck out, scrimped and saved, and worked bloody long hours to achieve it.
You could do it too, but choose not too, that's your choice, but stop trying to punish those willing to put the work in |
Stop seeing tax policy as punishment. It's about 1) maintaining an effective economy 2) funding the projects that society needs to stay functional and 3) increasing the fairness of the system and equality of opportunity. Envy and resentment have nothing to do with any of those things.
As it happens, I happily support policy that doesn't benefit me personally. Two examples are getting rid of the Baby Bonus, with which we would have been a few thousand dollars better off if it had still been around when Ingmar was born; and imposing the GST on imported purchases, which sucks for me because I buy a lot of stuff from Amazon. But both are good policy, so I support them. Politics isn't (or shouldn't be) just about what's in it for me. It should be about what benefits the whole.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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Funny never knew much about it but have read a bit cause of this thread - seems you can negatively gear property you have bought in a different country - didn't know that so best I look at that in more detail!! 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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3.14159 
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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| think positive wrote: | Um, you mean give us a small deduction against the huge tax we pay right? As a family we don't get any tax payers money, we get reductions in things like uni fees and an interest free hecs loan like everyone else. That's it.
Funny I remember being told here once it's none of my business where the tax money we pay is spent! |
This isn't all about you. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Maybe that's why I'm only replying to the digs aimed at me!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Morrigu wrote: | | Funny never knew much about it but have read a bit cause of this thread - seems you can negatively gear property you have bought in a different country - didn't know that so best I look at that in more detail!! |
You would be crazy not too. You dinks pay way more than your fair share of taxes.
And the Chinese buying up all our houses is what the real problem is, not mum and dad investors.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Actually, it's both (and the many other property investors who don't fit into either category).
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^You're not being targeted, TP; your preferred mode of investment is realising risks it has always faced.
Housing is a core social need, so as a sector it is always subject to policy change. Housing affordability wasn't a critical issue in the past, but it is now, so the sentiment is shifting. The writing has been on the wall for some time, too.
Surely, the instability of tax concessions and national sentiment concerning housing affordability ought to have been sitting at the very top of your investment threat column from the start.
That doesn't make life easy, of course, but the point is it's a known risk, not a case of anyone targeting anyone else as such. Sometimes, priorities just shift, and the market adjusts. As a much more extreme example, look at the apocalypse facing oil and fossil fuels investors 
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| pietillidie wrote: | ^You're not being targeted, TP; your preferred mode of investment is realising risks it has always faced. Well i certainly got a couple of directed digs in my mind!
Housing is a core social need, so as a sector it is always subject to policy change. Housing affordability wasn't a critical issue in the past, but it is now, so the sentiment is shifting. The writing has been on the wall for some time, too. - hence why we have shifted our investment plan to factories just the right size for importers.
Surely, the instability of tax concessions and national sentiment concerning housing affordability ought to have been sitting at the very top of your investment threat column from the start. - yep, that's why we still have 1 property left, so our kids get a leg up, I've said that, we bought it yanks ago, and it is very positively geared now, I put all extra rent on the loan every month to pay it off
That doesn't make life easy, of course, but the point is it's a known risk, not a case of anyone targeting anyone else as such. Sometimes, priorities just shift, and the market adjusts. As a much more extreme example, look at the apocalypse facing oil and fossil fuels investors |
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | Actually, it's both (and the many other property investors who don't fit into either category). |
So where is your posts bashing up the Chinese?
You bang on about investors as if they are evil warlords, but who will build the housing for those who choose to rent? They do exist you know. They work and spend the earnings on new cars, new furniture, big fancy holidays, instead of a deposit. Or you think they should be able to do both?
And don't tell me yes, because it would be affordable. It was affordable, and I can name at least 5 couples who chose to shop and rent, rather than save and buy. And now in their golden years, they are still paying off their first home and struggling with it. Who's faults that?
It doesn't matter how cheap you make the housing market, plenty will still not want to put out that cash, and so you will still need rental properties.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| think positive wrote: | | So where is your posts bashing up the Chinese? |
In the trashcan, where all such 'yellow peril' fearmongering belongs.
I don't blame individuals, I blame the system. Just like you, overseas investors are perfectly entitled to make the most of a system that gives them an advantage. What I'm proposing is that the system itself be overhauled so as to make them (and everyone else) compete on a fairer playing field.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | So where is your posts bashing up the Chinese? |
In the trashcan, where all such 'yellow peril' fearmongering belongs.
I don't blame individuals, I blame the system. Just like you, overseas investors are perfectly entitled to make the most of a system that gives them an advantage. What I'm proposing is that the system itself be overhauled so as to make them (and everyone else) compete on a fairer playing field. |
will it be fair though?
when i was ironing last week i accidentally watched 20 boring minutes of a political program and the speaker said that the proposed changes would actually work against, and then you wont even get middle class investors, only the rich will be able to afford to invest, that its not just about incentive to invest but affordability.
how about a low cost housing building scheme? and get the unemployed working on it. they get a discount on the finished product if they want to buy. problem is then you get ghettos.
plenty of middle rung incomers can afford to buy, but are choosing not to. if there is no rental market, where do they live? you forcing them to buy?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| think positive wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | ^You're not being targeted, TP; your preferred mode of investment is realising risks it has always faced. Well i certainly got a couple of directed digs in my mind!
Housing is a core social need, so as a sector it is always subject to policy change. Housing affordability wasn't a critical issue in the past, but it is now, so the sentiment is shifting. The writing has been on the wall for some time, too. - hence why we have shifted our investment plan to factories just the right size for importers.
Surely, the instability of tax concessions and national sentiment concerning housing affordability ought to have been sitting at the very top of your investment threat column from the start. - yep, that's why we still have 1 property left, so our kids get a leg up, I've said that, we bought it yanks ago, and it is very positively geared now, I put all extra rent on the loan every month to pay it off
That doesn't make life easy, of course, but the point is it's a known risk, not a case of anyone targeting anyone else as such. Sometimes, priorities just shift, and the market adjusts. As a much more extreme example, look at the apocalypse facing oil and fossil fuels investors |
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Good on you, TP. That's the spirit.
On your point in the post above about only the rich investing, I think that's an absolutely fair and central concern, and one which unites the middle-upper and working classes more than the latter realise: Just a modest increase in wealth is very damned difficult to come by.
I recall Paul Keating saying in an interview back in the day that he wanted to liberalise the investment industry so ordinary Australians could access the market and share in the massive growth of market wealth. He was significantly successful in doing so, but we're now overdue for new ways to reward more people.
I encounter something similar in my startup-oriented work. If startups don't position to scale massively, and fast, they can't attract capital; it's as if there's nothing between massive, rapid investment, and modest investment.
This is definitely a fundamental economic dilemma, and as a society we have to go beyond extreme risk, family neglect, environmental pillaging, skulduggery, elite fraternising, market manipulation and sheer crazy luck as the only means of getting reward for effort.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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| David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | So where is your posts bashing up the Chinese? |
In the trashcan, where all such 'yellow peril' fearmongering belongs.
I don't blame individuals, I blame the system. Just like you, overseas investors are perfectly entitled to make the most of a system that gives them an advantage. What I'm proposing is that the system itself be overhauled so as to make them (and everyone else) compete on a fairer playing field. |
The Australia channel in the Asia Pacific rim runs ads about buying homes for investment in Australia aimed at Asians. Yet most Asian countries won't let us buy one here. In the majority of cases where land is involved you have to sign over 51 percent to a national. Some places allow 99 year leases and you can buy condos but you don't own any of the land. Earlier this year in Phuket a series of condos were found to be built illegally so all the foreign investors did the money cold. The Australian potential homebuyer is being taken as mugs by cashed up Asians. Yes they use the system. The answer is to change it.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Absolutely.
Residential housing and primary producers should only be able to be sold to Australian residents.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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