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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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| Albert Parker wrote: | Richmond's membership has moved above ours on the back of a premiership. If we return to the upper echelons of the ladder, increased membership and merchandise sales will quickly replace this 'lost' revenue.
In any case, on balance, I suspect we've not made so much on pokies venues. We wrote off quite a bit of money against our investments in the Beach Hotel (Albert Park) and the Diamond Creek Hotel. There was also adverse publicity from ownership of the Horse and Carriage because only about 1% of revenues were being pumped back into the community for sporting equipment and facilities etc. It was a bad experience.
Given also that
- there is a salary cap
- there is now a tax on off-field spend and we've curbed that accordingly
- we have very little debt as a club to repay
- our facilities for the players and members are amongst the best in the AFL and centrally located
there are fewer incentives to have the extra millions from this pokie revenue for use around the club.
As a membership-based organisation, we really aren't trying to make ever-greater profits. It's not like the members get greater dividends from doing so. |
I think you’re on the money A P ( excuse the pun )
The other thing I would add is that no organisation would volunteer to exit a revenue stream without having already crunched the numbers without that income.
I have no doubt the club will remain profitable without the pokies. Hopefully, the club don’t get too greedy and feel the need to impact the members as a consequence. |
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die4pies 
Homeward bound
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Trenerry Cres.
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Well that's $12M pa we need to get from somewhere else |
It's a bit deceiving that $12M number Stui as it is actually the gross revenue raised from the venues and gaming machines. It actually costs the Collingwood Football Club just a little under $12M to generate that revenue. The ROI is currently around 3-5%. Literally on a knife edge.
The numbers have never added up for Collingwood FC to be involved with venues and gaming like this. Having a commercial investment tycoon as Vice President and board member since 1998 should have protected us against this farcical financial malaise. The KOA warned members about this back in 2008 by the way.
It's been 14 years since the acquisition of these "money printing machines" and taking into account the net $20M loss on the Diamond Creek Hotel and Beach Hotel gaming licences ($20M is made up of asset right down value, $15M loan interest, court appearances and operating expenses) and the fact that all venues return less than $1M per annum into the P&L it would not have been until at least 2025 before we would have seen a net overall return on this investment.
But don't worry, we're top four. Who needs due diligence and accountability when we are gunning for a flag? Right?
Shane
KOA
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"MAKE COLLINGWOOD GRATE AGAIN" |
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Dr Pie
Dr Pie
Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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Pokies are actually bad for football and entertainment in general.
People often wonder why professional Aussie Rules has much larger attendance numbers than professional Rugby League when the TV ratings of the two codes are similar. Part of the explanation is that Aussie Footy is much better to watch, but a major reason relates to how the clubs raised their money in the days before full professionalism.
Victoria only legalised pokies in 1991, Pokies were legal in NSW since 1956. Until the 90s, despite a share of television fees and donations from wealthy supporters, the clubs' main source of revenue was admission and memberships, i.e. bums on seats or legs in the terraces. While older Nicksters all remember grubby toilets and sagging terracing (and that was at Victoria Park, a lot of other grounds were worse) the fact remains clubs did make some effort to provide facilities for barrackers and in particular for members. In NSW Rugby League Clubs did not have to spend anything on spectator facilities because the clubs payed the players and officials from the rivers of gold that flowed through the pokies at the Leagues Clubs.
Pokies are also the reason that Melbourne has been the centre of the music and comedy industries. Melbourne became Australia's musical centre in the 60s and 70s. A lot of the bands actually came from Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide but they based themselves in Melbourne. The reason; after 6.pm closing of pubs was finally abolished in 1966 pubs needed to provide entertainment to attract patrons and sell drinks. Rock and pop music was a great source of customers and the boomer generation was the first generation since WWI to look to pubs as an entertainment venue, especially since those venues were offering our generation's music. In Sydney, while there were surf clubs and the odd mega venue like Surf City at the Cross providing young people's music, the music scene was dominated by the Leagues Clubs (pokies venues) featuring American Night Club performers playing the music of the 40s and 50s. The best young groups from Sydney like the Easybeats and later ACDC found more work in Melbourne.
When the Kirner Government legalised pokies in 1991 it had a fairly negative effect on the local music industry.
The effect on families of addictive poker machines is enough reason to get rid of pokies but the decision is also good for football and public entertainment. I'm pleased that the Pies are getting out.
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Born and raised in Black and White |
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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Some interesting perspectives have been shared on this topic. Thanks to those who have added to the colour
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One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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@Dieforpies, cheers Shane. I wasn't sure whether the $12M was gross or net. It seemed to be implied that it was the net figure, but I'll take your word for it.
@Dr Pie, I basically agree with a large proportion of your post. However, by the mid 80's at least there was a thriving pub band scene in parts of Sydney. Pubs didn't have pokies, only clubs, so maybe they copied Melbourne I'm not sure but I recall visiting Sydney a few times during the mid 80's and watching live bands at pubs. It was around the time that the nightclub scene exploded in Melbourne and the thing to do on a Saturday night wasn't to go to a pub but a nightclub where there was also live music with a DJ between breaks and you'd get a feed for your covercharge.
Another thing, IIRC the Leagues clubs were incorporated separately to the football club, as NSW law required profits from pokies to be spent on community benefit, so I'm not sure how much benefit the football clubs actually got from them.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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eddiesmith 
Lets get ready to Rumble
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Location: Lexus Centre
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What a joke, basically dumping something to appease a minority whilst the AFL continues to support betting on their games with huge number of advertising at every game, on every telecast
Pokies so often cop the wrath whilst every other far worse addiction rolls on |
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Piethagoras' Theorem
the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk
Joined: 29 May 2006
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^ how'd you figure it's the minority? Most people I know hate the damn things.
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Formally frankiboy and FrankieGoesToCollingwood. |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Dr Pie wrote: | Pokies are actually bad for football and entertainment in general.
People often wonder why professional Aussie Rules has much larger attendance numbers than professional Rugby League when the TV ratings of the two codes are similar. Part of the explanation is that Aussie Footy is much better to watch, but a major reason relates to how the clubs raised their money in the days before full professionalism.
Victoria only legalised pokies in 1991, Pokies were legal in NSW since 1956. Until the 90s, despite a share of television fees and donations from wealthy supporters, the clubs' main source of revenue was admission and memberships, i.e. bums on seats or legs in the terraces. While older Nicksters all remember grubby toilets and sagging terracing (and that was at Victoria Park, a lot of other grounds were worse) the fact remains clubs did make some effort to provide facilities for barrackers and in particular for members. In NSW Rugby League Clubs did not have to spend anything on spectator facilities because the clubs payed the players and officials from the rivers of gold that flowed through the pokies at the Leagues Clubs.
Pokies are also the reason that Melbourne has been the centre of the music and comedy industries. Melbourne became Australia's musical centre in the 60s and 70s. A lot of the bands actually came from Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide but they based themselves in Melbourne. The reason; after 6.pm closing of pubs was finally abolished in 1966 pubs needed to provide entertainment to attract patrons and sell drinks. Rock and pop music was a great source of customers and the boomer generation was the first generation since WWI to look to pubs as an entertainment venue, especially since those venues were offering our generation's music. In Sydney, while there were surf clubs and the odd mega venue like Surf City at the Cross providing young people's music, the music scene was dominated by the Leagues Clubs (pokies venues) featuring American Night Club performers playing the music of the 40s and 50s. The best young groups from Sydney like the Easybeats and later ACDC found more work in Melbourne.
When the Kirner Government legalised pokies in 1991 it had a fairly negative effect on the local music industry.
The effect on families of addictive poker machines is enough reason to get rid of pokies but the decision is also good for football and public entertainment. I'm pleased that the Pies are getting out. |
Spot on Dr Pie. There's several reasons why the live music scene in Melbourne suffered a serious decline in the 90s, but without doubt the introduction of pokies, and in particular, allowing them to be spread across the whole city and state, was a significant causal factor.
It's been a stain on our club that we've involved ourselves in this grubby industry, which preys on the vulnerable and those who can least afford it. It is tantamount to theft. For a club with such proud working class roots as ours, it was disappointing that we got ourselves involved in it, but at least we are doing the right thing now and wiping our hands of this atrocious activity. |
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K
Joined: 09 Sep 2011
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Dr Pie wrote: | Pokies are actually bad for football and entertainment in general.
People often wonder why professional Aussie Rules has much larger attendance numbers than professional Rugby League when the TV ratings of the two codes are similar. Part of the explanation is that Aussie Footy is much better to watch, but a major reason relates to how the clubs raised their money in the days before full professionalism.
Victoria only legalised pokies in 1991, Pokies were legal in NSW since 1956. Until the 90s, despite a share of television fees and donations from wealthy supporters, the clubs' main source of revenue was admission and memberships, i.e. bums on seats or legs in the terraces. While older Nicksters all remember grubby toilets and sagging terracing (and that was at Victoria Park, a lot of other grounds were worse) the fact remains clubs did make some effort to provide facilities for barrackers and in particular for members. In NSW Rugby League Clubs did not have to spend anything on spectator facilities because the clubs payed the players and officials from the rivers of gold that flowed through the pokies at the Leagues Clubs.
Pokies are also the reason that Melbourne has been the centre of the music and comedy industries. Melbourne became Australia's musical centre in the 60s and 70s. A lot of the bands actually came from Sydney, Brisbane and Adelaide but they based themselves in Melbourne. The reason; after 6.pm closing of pubs was finally abolished in 1966 pubs needed to provide entertainment to attract patrons and sell drinks. Rock and pop music was a great source of customers and the boomer generation was the first generation since WWI to look to pubs as an entertainment venue, especially since those venues were offering our generation's music. In Sydney, while there were surf clubs and the odd mega venue like Surf City at the Cross providing young people's music, the music scene was dominated by the Leagues Clubs (pokies venues) featuring American Night Club performers playing the music of the 40s and 50s. The best young groups from Sydney like the Easybeats and later ACDC found more work in Melbourne.
When the Kirner Government legalised pokies in 1991 it had a fairly negative effect on the local music industry.
The effect on families of addictive poker machines is enough reason to get rid of pokies but the decision is also good for football and public entertainment. I'm pleased that the Pies are getting out. |
Spot on Dr Pie. There's several reasons why the live music scene in Melbourne suffered a serious decline in the 90s, but without doubt the introduction of pokies, and in particular, allowing them to be spread across the whole city and state, was a significant causal factor.
It's been a stain on our club that we've involved ourselves in this grubby industry, which preys on the vulnerable and those who can least afford it. It is tantamount to theft. For a club with such proud working class roots as ours, it was disappointing that we got ourselves involved in it, but at least we are doing the right thing now and wiping our hands of this atrocious activity. |
I very much agree with your views in general on this, RB. Pokies are a tax on the poor and vulnerable. But our working class club was underwritten by John
Wren’s tote, you know..... 
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Two more flags before I die! |
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ronrat
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand
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Albert it is the Coach and Horses on maroondah Highway in Ringwood. It use to be my local 25 years ago.
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Annoying opposition supporters since 1967. |
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