Greece's Debt Crisis
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Edit: In reply to Woods of Ypres:
| Woods Of Ypres wrote: | the lazy Greeks only have themselves to blame, they don't pay tax, then retire at 50 and accept lifelong pensions from a Government that borrows billions it cannot afford. typical Greek mentality.
After lying to get into the EU, now they need to be bailed out.
At least the ones that migrate to Melbourne will be forced to work until they are 70 like the rest us. they will sulk about it too. |
That sort of thing just evolves naturally and is at the whim of so much arbitrary history, such individual personification of a nation is both silly and subject to racist undertones.
It's much safer to go for people in positions of leadership and power and those very vocally supporting whatever nonsense. Moreover, those in power take on responsibility for moving things in the right direction, so copping blame is in their job description.
Of course, we personify collectives as a placeholder, but not in serious individual judgement as you've just tried to do 
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Last edited by pietillidie on Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Mugwump wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | | Troika policy overseeing a ridiculous 25% decline in GDP. That is stunning mismanagement in its own right already, so a reflexive reach for cliches of Leftist mismanagement lack any sense of irony whatsoever. |
I'm no fan of the Left, as you know,but i agree that the reflexive Left/Right thing is not necessarily the best lens down which to see this issue. The issue in Greece is corruption, clientelism and mismanagement, which happens in Leftist and in Rightist governments - typically for the Left, it is in overspending (check) and on the Right, it's not collecting sufficient taxes (check).
The proper objection to Syriza, I think, is not whether it's too far Left, it's that it's unprofessional and unpredictable in its conduct and thus making a bad situation worse. |
I don't disagree with that, I just think it's also guessing, and prioritising a heuristic which has already proven shaky in this instance: The greater authority must know what it's doing.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| Will France and Spain follow? |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^PTID, I don't think anyone in this drama knows quite what they are doing. The EU is presently in the position of having its central bank- charged with Eurozone banking stability - asphyxiating the Greek banking system by denying it liquidity. And indeed, EU policies have contributed hugely to Greece's trauma by enforcing extreme austerity on behalf of creditors. It's a complete mess.
But the topic David raised was Syriza, who seem to me a bunch of aggressive amateurs who aren't likely to get the best possible bad deal for Greece. Left or Right is not all that relevant, imo.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Culprit wrote: | | Will France and Spain follow? |
Not yet, and probably not for a long time. Portugal, then Italy are probably the next most vulnerable, but they are not as sick as Greece.
The really key point here is that Greece's exit, assuming it happens, signals that the Euro is not a currency, it's an exchange rate mechanism. You lent them Euros, but they might ultimately pay you back in semi-worthless Drachma, Lira etc if they can afford to pay you at all. Once the markets believe that, they'll start to price EZ government debt very differently, and that'll worsen the competitiveness of the weaklings vs the strong economies. It could be a very bumpy ride, and it could even spiral out of control very quickly.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| Woods Of Ypres wrote: | the lazy Greeks only have themselves to blame, they don't pay tax, then retire at 50 and accept lifelong pensions from a Government that borrows billions it cannot afford. typical Greek mentality.
After lying to get into the EU, now they need to be bailed out.
At least the ones that migrate to Melbourne will be forced to work until they are 70 like the rest us. they will sulk about it too. |
Let me guess � Macedonian? 
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Woods Of Ypres
Joined: 27 May 2003
Location: Yugoslavia
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| David wrote: | | Woods Of Ypres wrote: | the lazy Greeks only have themselves to blame, they don't pay tax, then retire at 50 and accept lifelong pensions from a Government that borrows billions it cannot afford. typical Greek mentality.
After lying to get into the EU, now they need to be bailed out.
At least the ones that migrate to Melbourne will be forced to work until they are 70 like the rest us. they will sulk about it too. |
Let me guess � Macedonian? |
yep  |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| Culprit wrote: | | Will France and Spain follow? |
spain has already headed to the abyss. keeps resurrecting himself too.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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LOL. Well, the vote is in and it's very resounding "no thanks" to soul- and spirit-crushing austerity.
Back to the drawing board, Troika. Now, off and do your effing jobs and make everyone responsible for their investments, including banks and those they represent.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| So, will this affect the price of gyros? |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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It's all Greek to me.
Forget about our Hellenic cousins, the real worry is our Sino neighbours up North: China's debt makes the Drachma look like good currency.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Hmm, so maybe that Greek island cruise I was checking out not a good idea?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Greek surcharge on the rise is what I'm hearing.
Spanish stable.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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