New refugee laws
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | We have plenty of social housing throughout Australia, and many asylum seekers will be able to rent their own accommodation when they get a job. |
Seriously mate, what colour is the sky on your planet?
We have plenty of social housing do we? So why is the waiting list for social housing measured in years? Why are there so many homeless?
And where are all these jobs just waiting to be filled? Have you checked out the latest unemployment rates?
The boats have largely been stopped and that's a good thing. (one of the few things Abbott promised and delivered) What we need to do is focus attention on bringing in and supporting refugees who can't afford to travel to Indonesia and spend thousands on coming here by boat. The poor bastards sitting waiting resettlement in UN camps.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| stui magpie wrote: | | David wrote: | | We have plenty of social housing throughout Australia, and many asylum seekers will be able to rent their own accommodation when they get a job. |
Seriously mate, what colour is the sky on your planet?
We have plenty of social housing do we? So why is the waiting list for social housing measured in years? Why are there so many homeless?
And where are all these jobs just waiting to be filled? Have you checked out the latest unemployment rates?
The boats have largely been stopped and that's a good thing. (one of the few things Abbott promised and delivered) What we need to do is focus attention on bringing in and supporting refugees who can't afford to travel to Indonesia and spend thousands on coming here by boat. The poor bastards sitting waiting resettlement in UN camps. |
Careful Stui you might end up with a PM about your posting behavior! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Shit, again?
generally when they do that, I just have to agree with them because I know I pushed it past the point and got pinned for it. 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| The Refugees Convention does apply to all boat arrivals in Australia. You don't have to like it. You can even pretend it isn't true, if you want. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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We don't have social housing. As Stui quite rightly points out there are waiting lists & there are plenty in them now that should not be there. Check out South Yarra where there a BMW's from people who do know how to shaft the system. (My wife works at times amongst the commission flat areas & has been for more than 17 years.)
They are not the majority & all governments especially the Lib Nats have massively cut public Housing. This is the biggest disgrace of all.
In terms of crime:
Refugees are under represented in the criminal justice system. I don't have the research on tap but that is a pretty well understood "fact": despite what the shock jocks will tell you..
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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From Wiki:
Victoria Police department officers also claimed in 2012 that Sudanese and Somali immigrants were around five times more likely to commit crimes than other state residents. Internal police figures asserted that the rate of offending in the Sudanese community was 7109.1 per 100,000 individuals, whereas it was said to be 6141.8 per 100,000 for Somalis, and 1301.0 per 100,000 for the wider Victoria community. Robbery and assault were alleged to have been the most common types of crime committed by the Sudanese and Somali residents, with assault purported to represent 29.5% and 24.3% of all offences, respectively.
Source : http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/african-youth-crime-concern-20120819-24glt.html |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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^ No doubt coming from such atrocious conditions can bring extra problems. But I see those statistics as a reason to improve government services, not to scale back refugee resettlement.
Being a good global citizen carries obligations. We can't just offer half-hearted gestures and then give up and say it's all too hard. The global refugee crisis isn't going to disappear because we decide to ignore it, and globalisation makes convenient isolationism impossible, thankfully.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Where do you see those statistics as a reason to improve government services not to scale back refugee resettlement? You are a global citizen carries obligations? Is that your job? |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Not to mention that apparently inconvenient trait of workerseven those soiled brownish-yellowish onesto produce more than they earn under conditions of productivity.
But economics in not usually a strong suit of fundamentalist paranoids, whose bizarre displacement theory of employment, service provision and life opportunity is illustrated with such force and clarity every time they get in and out of the bath:
Now, children, this is what happens to the unemployment rate every time one of those dirty foreigners lands in Australia! So f^&k off, the bath, err, the economy, err, we're full!
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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Antony Loewenstein proposed this in January:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/its-time-for-un-sanctions-on-australia-our-government-deserves-nothing-less
As much as I'd love to see this happen, it's probably totally unrealistic. Does anyone who's read a little on this topic know what steps would need to be taken? If Russia and/or China were to propose sanctions in the security council, for instance, could they carry?
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange
Last edited by David on Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:51 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Wokko wrote: | From Wiki:
Victoria Police department officers also claimed in 2012 that Sudanese and Somali immigrants were around five times more likely to commit crimes than other state residents. Internal police figures asserted that the rate of offending in the Sudanese community was 7109.1 per 100,000 individuals, whereas it was said to be 6141.8 per 100,000 for Somalis, and 1301.0 per 100,000 for the wider Victoria community. Robbery and assault were alleged to have been the most common types of crime committed by the Sudanese and Somali residents, with assault purported to represent 29.5% and 24.3% of all offences, respectively.
Source : http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/african-youth-crime-concern-20120819-24glt.html |
That's a narrow selective group.
My statement was in relation to all refugees & all crime. Your newspaper article is much narrower ie. it specifially refers to race & age & can be misleading.
Further, the Police in inner city Victoria have been accused of targeting African youth so the numbers might well be misleading in that group too.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Tannin wrote: | | Providing homes to boat arrivals is like rescuing only those survivors from a shipwreck who were able to buy, bribe, or steal a lifebuoy or fight their way onto the safety of a raft, leaving all the drowning swimmers to their fate. |
| David wrote: | ^ Though some might say that it's still better than pushing the people in lifebuoys back overboard while giving the finger to everyone else in the water.
Oh, and if we're to stretch the metaphor, cordoning off 75% of the rescue vessel so that Rupert Murdoch can park his luxury car. |
It gets worse, David. At the same time as we take only a pitiful handful of the desperate swimmers, we take close to 200,000 others per year who are in no danger whatsoever. That's half a million every three years - and nothing is done to restrict that lunatic open-floodgates policy which is driving up prices and driving down living standards, wrecking our environment, and degrading our quality of life.
Most people hate it. Over and over and over again polls show that Australians do not want open-slather immigration; have not wanted it for years, but governments of both sorts ignore the electors who put them into office, and lie, lie lie about their policies. The Liberal Party in particular has made an art-form of tapping into community opposition to massive immigration by a combination of high-profile nastiness to the tiny minority who arrive by boat and stealthy, secretive encouragement of the millions who arrive by air. (Yes, millions: almost two million since 1990 and over five and a half million since 1950. And there has been no effort whatsoever to slow the flood.)
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| watt price tully wrote: | We don't have social housing. As Stui quite rightly points out there are waiting lists & there are plenty in them now that should not be there. Check out South Yarra where there a BMW's from people who do know how to shaft the system. (My wife works at times amongst the commission flat areas & has been for more than 17 years.)
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We could do a whole discussion just on social housing.
Since the bad old days of whacking all the poor people into one spot at least nowdays as I understand it, they've got with the program and now all of the new housing estates have houses set aside for social hosing as you call it. So rather than building new ghettos the needy are integrated in with people who are renting, buying etc which is a better environment.
However back to the issue of the scarcity of public housing and the wait lists, I'll stay away from how many new ones are being built cos I have NFI but I agree completely that there needs to be some stronger form of assessment in reviewing the people who are in there.
No argument that the majority who are in public housing have circumstances that warrant them being there, but there is a large number of people milking the system, occupying public housing when they more than have the means to be either privately renting or purchasing. Or living in one of their rental properties.
Public housing IMO should always be temporary not an ongoing entitlement, subject to regular review. While a number of bludging arsewipes laugh along occupying public housing, others in need are in shelters (which are very temporary) sleeping at a charity hostel or homeless.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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The economics underlying some of the discussion on this is cringeworthy.
How many times does that have to be repeated? Employment and social services are not one-in, one-out (zero sum) scenarios because (a) like all workers, new arrivals produce more than they consume, and (b) national-scale socio-economic systems are elastic enough to absorb significant temporary variation.
FFS, if you think about it for two seconds, very obviously something more complex is going on because in recent decades most nations have gotten wealthier even as their populations have markedly grownin Australia's case through both immigration and natural increase.
Whatever your reasons are for opposing immigration and increased population, employment and social services are red herrings at best, and embarrassing naivete at worst.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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CP
Joined: 05 Feb 2003
Location: Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | The government's aim of stopping illegal immigration is perfectly justified, and is also supported by the vast majority of Australians. |
That has long ceased to be this government's aim. They no longer differentiate between genuine refugees and supposed 'economic migrants'. It's off to the concentration camps with the lot of them. |
So, under Rudd/Gillard, the policies in play absolutely, no doubt lured boat people into detention centers; a minimum of 1200 to their deaths trying. Nobody seems to care, except conservatives.
The detention centers that every bleeding heart said would be mothballed and vacant filled to over capacity within just a few years. Nobody argues for this horror to stop, except conservatives.
Then the coalition came into power. The boats, drownings, sexual assaults, overcrowding and smuggling trade to Oz were stopped within months of the current govt taking the helm. Children in detention have reduced dramatically and those remaining are being processed quicker.
And it's only now you scream in absolute terms that if people don't fight the current govt (sensible and successful) policy, then they are somehow guilty of what you term as a crime.
It's backward!
These people, as needy as some are, arrived illegally, supporting an illegal trade and then cause a massive drain on our tax dollars in having access to lawyers, welfare and other taxpayer funded support mechanisms. Other genuine refugees get moved back down the queue because of them.
At some point you need to realize that your utopian view of how the world must operate is incompatible with a relatively free society that is funded by taxpayers. I'm genuinely clutching at straws in trying to work out how the agenda in Australia gas been hijacked by idealists who take everyone's side in every argument as long as it's not that of a conservative government.
It's so see-through that it's embarrassing. You should be ashamed of yourself. |
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