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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| watt price tully wrote: | ^ &I'm sure he helps little old ladies cross the road.
That is beside the many points as you well know.  |
The point is Downey Jr is supporting the premise that Hollywood has blacklisted him. Him and Jodie Foster are two that still go into bat for Mel. Anyway, I'm off to watch Mad Max and The Patriot.  |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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I wouldn't think Caviezel's misfortune has much to do with his association with Gibson (as you seem to be implying). The "Jesus curse" (that is, the perception that film producers are more reluctant to hire actors for regular roles if they've already played Jesus H.) has plagued more than a few actors, hence Gibson's warningMax von Sydow is the only one I'm aware of who really escaped it, and he was already a famous actor in Europe years before The Greatest Story Ever Told.
Re: Gibson, another possible reason for his supposed blacklisting is his apparently aggressive temperament on set. Whatever the case, let's get back to Woody Allenthe question over whether or whether not Hollywood has double standards isn't really all that relevant here.
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"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." â Julian Assange |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| David wrote: | | I wouldn't think Caviezel's misfortune has much to do with his association with Gibson (as you seem to be implying). The "Jesus curse" (that is, the perception that film producers are more reluctant to hire actors for regular roles if they've already played Jesus H.) has plagued more than a few actors, hence Gibson's warningMax von Sydow is the only one I'm aware of who really escaped it, and he was already a famous actor in Europe years before The Greatest Story Ever Told. |
Christian Bale: Mary Mother of Jesus (1999), Chris Sarandon: The Day Christ Died (1980), Willem Dafoe: The Last Temptation of Christ (1988), Max von Sydow: The Greatest Story Ever Told (1965), Henry Ian Cusick: The Gospel of John (2003).
No, it was because it was Mel's film.
The whole Allen case is messed up, I wouldn't want to even try to unravel it. Mia Farrow is obviously bitter and wants to hurt him, and wouldn't be the first person to brainwash their kids to hurt their ex. The guy is obviously a dirty little perv, and I certainly wouldn't want him babysitting but, unlike Polanski who should be hunted down and fed to rabid dogs, there is enough doubt to give pause on condemning him. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | ......
Re: Gibson, another possible reason for his supposed blacklisting is his apparently aggressive temperament on set. Whatever the case, let's get back to Woody Allenthe question over whether or whether not Hollywood has double standards isn't really all that relevant here. |
Hithcen's called Gibson quite accurately & if he got run over by a bus tomorrow I wouldn't be disappointed. That too is not incompatible with Gibson assisting others but is irrelevant to Hithcens's well made points.
But you're right, it had little to do if anything with Woody Allen when it was first raised by Wokko in this thread.
As noted before Dylan's mother Mia had a lot to do with the timing of the accusations against Allen (post separation) & as the independent authorities noted at the time she was quite likely influenced Dylan.
No one I know here or elsewhere is saying that the testimony of a 7 yr old should not be listened to. However what was demonstrated 20 years or more ago was that Dylan was unable to separate reality from fantasy. That makes it very difficult to prove allegations notwithstanding the likelihood he was got at by his Mother.
Having said all of that, I'm looking forward to seeing the new film by Woody Allen & hope Cate Blanchett continues to do well.
_________________
âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Wokko wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: |
So your assertion then is wrong by your own words.
He was not blacklisted despite your claim
Then you use a flimsy piece from a part of fox news to back up your assertion dated 2012.
Then you say he has enough of his own money to produce his films (through Hollywood).
In other words an inherent contradiction in your argument.
Was he or was he not blacklisted as you claim?
Christopher Hitchens wanted him blacklisted & punished not for being the extremist looney right winger that he is, not for being the nasty anti-semite that he is (His father is a holocaust denier from way back & the son has not fallen far from the tree) but for his serious errors & misrepresentations of Scottish history in his film Braveheart & his extremist right wing fundamentalist views on Christianity:
Hitchens on Gibson in the Slate (2010 - when Hitchens was alive)
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2010/07/mel_gibson_isnt_just_an_angry_narcissist.html
".. Why is there this reluctance to call something by its right name? It's not as if Gibson was issuing a cry for help. On the contrary, what he is issuing is the distilled violence, cruelty, and bigotryand sexual hypocrisythat stretches from the Crusades through the Inquisition to the "concordats" between the church and Hitler and Mussolini..." |
| Quote: | Over the weekend while Robert Downey Jr. was on stage accepting an American Cinematheque Award in Beverly Hills, the actor focused some of his speech on Mel Gibson, asking Hollywood to forgive him. He said;
Unless you are without sin -- and if you are, you are in the wrong [expletive] industry -- you should forgive him and let him work.
Downey went on to say that when he was struggling with substance abuse issues that it was Mel that helped him get through that dark time and that Gibson was the one person that didnt turn his back on Robert. He said;
He taught my many things, and I will use the 'C' word courage. There's nothing so much wrong with him. Of course you have to worry about the guy making the judgment here. He's a good dude with a good heart. Mel and I have the same lawyer, same publicist, and same shrink. I couldn't get hired and he cast me. He said if I accepted responsibility -- he called it hugging the cactus -- long enough, my life would take meaning. And if he helped me, I would help the next guy. But it was not reasonable to expect the next guy would be him."
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AAJuynxnTQ
He's managed to make some films because he is wealthy enough, and has a few friends left. Gibson is a great actor and director, one of the best but can barely get a gig. He's been blacklisted but is powerful and wealthy enough to be somewhat self sufficient. The guy who played Jesus in Passion of the Christ hasn't been quite so lucky.
| Quote: | | In 2004, Caviezel portrayed Jesus Christ in Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ. During filming, he was struck by lightning, accidentally scourged, dislocated his shoulder, and suffered pneumonia and hypothermia.[10] Prior to filming, Gibson reportedly warned Caviezel that playing Jesus would hurt his acting career. In 2011, he admitted that good roles had been hard to come by ever since. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Caviezel |
I thought begotten blacklisted because if his drunken anti jew rant?
Hollywood is still powered by rich Jewish men I believe??
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| think positive wrote: |
I thought begotten blacklisted because if his drunken anti jew rant?
Hollywood is still powered by rich Jewish men I believe?? |
That's right. Insult the Jews, you're ruined. Rape kiddies or dozens of other horrendous things that actors/directors have done, you're fine. That's the morality of Hollywood. Sick and disgusting industry. I still love the movies, but the entertainment industry has always been shady. |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| Bingo! |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Wokko wrote: | | That's right. Insult the Jews, you're ruined. Rape kiddies or dozens of other horrendous things that actors/directors have done, you're fine. |
No. There is a huge difference. Gibson DID do what he did. Proven fact, on the public record. Allen most likely DID NOT do what he is accused of, and he must, like anyone else, be regarded as innocent until proven guilty. In his partiocular case, the evidence against him is very, very weak. So it's not the same thing. Not even nearly the same thing.
| Wokko wrote: | | the morality of Hollywood. Sick and disgusting industry. I still love the movies, but the entertainment industry has always been shady. |
I 100% agree. All the way with you on this. Oh, except for the bit about loving the movies. 88% of them are disgusting, amoral propaganda for evil things that should not be tolerated, 98% of them bore me to tears, and I wouldn't miss the other 2% much.
_________________
�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Tannin wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | That's right. Insult the Jews, you're ruined. Rape kiddies or dozens of other horrendous things that actors/directors have done, you're fine. |
No. There is a huge difference. Gibson DID do what he did. Proven fact, on the public record. Allen most likely DID NOT do what he is accused of, and he must, like anyone else, be regarded as innocent until proven guilty. In his partiocular case, the evidence against him is very, very weak. So it's not the same thing. Not even nearly the same thing.
| Wokko wrote: | | the morality of Hollywood. Sick and disgusting industry. I still love the movies, but the entertainment industry has always been shady. |
I 100% agree. All the way with you on this. ...... |
Except for your last paragraph I agree also
I refer you to Christopher Hitchens re good ol Mel & his sweet Dad. Dangerous extremist nutters.
Imagine what they think of the current Pope  if they thought the other one was the anti-christ.
The world has enough religious extremists as well as enough homophobes, racists & sexists. Gibson is merely another one.
Now getting back to the OP. Woody Allen is in a no win situation here & Dylan's rant will hurt people who have had nothing to do with her alleged grievance. That's why the outpouring on social media with a concerted campaign by the Farrow entourage is desperately unfair to a whole lot of folk which now includes "our" Cate - & for the record what a dignified response by her.
Haven't a few here on Nicks been dabbling with National Socialism? I could be wrong.
_________________
âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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This piece hits back at some of the online criticism of Dylan Farrow. I think it makes some good points:
https://theconversation.com/woody-allen-presumption-of-innocence-no-guarantee-of-justice-in-sexual-abuse-22719
WPT, no criticism of you directly here (particularly given the fact I agree with a lot of what you've said), but I think we all need to keep a few things in mind:
1) I can believe that Mia Farrow might lie in order to destroy Woody Allen's reputation. I find it much harder to believe that her daughter would make something like this up. Given that, the two main possibilities are that it did happen, or that her memories have been implanted. The latter is possible, but much more unlikely.
2) We both like Woody Allen, and neither of us want to believe that he has committed this horrible act. I think that's inevitably going to cloud our judgement.
3) Child sexual abuse is much less rare than once thought, and so many victims have been silenced because ordinary people didn't want to believe such a thing could happen. Even if she has been lied to, what Dylan Farrow has done is extraordinarily brave. We should be careful that, in defending Allen, we don't contribute to the further silencing of sex abuse victims.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." â Julian Assange |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | This piece hits back at some of the online criticism of Dylan Farrow. I think it makes some good points:
https://theconversation.com/woody-allen-presumption-of-innocence-no-guarantee-of-justice-in-sexual-abuse-22719
WPT, no criticism of you directly here (particularly given the fact I agree with a lot of what you've said), but I think we all need to keep a few things in mind:
1) I can believe that Mia Farrow might lie in order to destroy Woody Allen's reputation. I find it much harder to believe that her daughter would make something like this up. Given that, the two main possibilities are that it did happen, or that her memories have been implanted. The latter is possible, but much more unlikely.
2) We both like Woody Allen, and neither of us want to believe that he has committed this horrible act. I think that's inevitably going to cloud our judgement.
3) Child sexual abuse is much less rare than once thought, and so many victims have been silenced because ordinary people didn't want to believe such a thing could happen. Even if she has been lied to, what Dylan Farrow has done is extraordinarily brave. We should be careful that, in defending Allen, we don't contribute to the further silencing of sex abuse victims. |
Bravo, that's a brilliant balanced view.
(Please excuse my earlier post, I wasn't drunk, just on my iPhone, with it's wierd word check!)
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| David wrote: | This piece hits back at some of the online criticism of Dylan Farrow. I think it makes some good points:
https://theconversation.com/woody-allen-presumption-of-innocence-no-guarantee-of-justice-in-sexual-abuse-22719
WPT, no criticism of you directly here (particularly given the fact I agree with a lot of what you've said), but I think we all need to keep a few things in mind:
1) I can believe that Mia Farrow might lie in order to destroy Woody Allen's reputation. I find it much harder to believe that her daughter would make something like this up. Given that, the two main possibilities are that it did happen, or that her memories have been implanted. The latter is possible, but much more unlikely.
2) We both like Woody Allen, and neither of us want to believe that he has committed this horrible act. I think that's inevitably going to cloud our judgement.
3) Child sexual abuse is much less rare than once thought, and so many victims have been silenced because ordinary people didn't want to believe such a thing could happen. Even if she has been lied to, what Dylan Farrow has done is extraordinarily brave. We should be careful that, in defending Allen, we don't contribute to the further silencing of sex abuse victims. |
Pls don't assume I don't support the memories of children. However what you & I can both go on is what is known was judged at the time. It was explicit.
I work with every day if not every second day with civtims of child rap. I personally know child victims of child rape by by parents or family friends. Even our own posters have been victims here.
The post you've posted is not for me with all due respect.
None of us know as we all know! but the Farrow industry has been in full swing.
My support of an innocent man does not mean I don't support the views of child rape victims.
Given that Dylan was found by others to confuse reality with fantasy at the age of 7 then her views are unfortunately questionable. In this context then Farrows timing & seeming vendetta (the scorned lover) & her bitterness can be likely to be seen to influence one's baby 7 or not.
Again I look forward to seeing Allen's latest & catch a few of his older ones.
BTW, what's this about Brighton?
The biggest inaccuracy is saying Allen is part of Hollywood. He's not although he's contribution is finally being acknowledged.
With respect to Polanski, his victim has forgiven him I believe. If that is the case that is good enough for me.
[/b]
_________________
âI even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didnât keep âem under long enoughâ Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Tue Feb 04, 2014 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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No worries. I respect your experience and understand that you wouldn't make this case lightly. I just felt like it needed to be said, if not for you than for others who might feel inclined to respond to Dylan's words sceptically.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." â Julian Assange |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Tannin wrote: |
No. There is a huge difference. Gibson DID do what he did. Proven fact, on the public record. Allen most likely DID NOT do what he is accused of, and he must, like anyone else, be regarded as innocent until proven guilty. In his partiocular case, the evidence against him is very, very weak. So it's not the same thing. Not even nearly the same thing. |
In that instance I was referring to Polanski who fled to avoid jail because the judge was going to go against the plea bargain. If you've read the girl's police statement you'd be sickened, yet he's still winning awards and having actors speaking in his defence. The charge sheet said it all really: Five offenses against Samantha Gailey, a 13-year-old girl rape by use of drugs, perversion, sodomy, lewd and lascivious act upon a child under 14, and furnishing a controlled substance to a minor.
Anyone in any other walk of life would be lynched for that, in Hollywood, it's parties and awards. All Mel did was get drunk and rant... who hasn't done that before |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
As I said before I have no opinion on Woody Allen as a person, and I'm not a fan of his work, but I agree entirely that there is a serious issue on Hollywood between what is accepted, even tacitly, and what gets people put on the outer.
Having said that, there's also contrary examples.
Rob Lowe got put into purgatory for decades due to excess, drugs, unreliability and getting sprung having sex on video with a 16 year old. I'm not sure what the biggest issue there was but the inference would be that the girl being under age wasn't the clincher.
Image in that industry is obviously vital, and as in any industry if you piss off the people who have the power, you get burned.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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