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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | So I guess the Riot last night was all made up according to people saying Media Lie about it  |
DTM: Two groups not from the area meeting to fight over a girl. Most were onlookers. What I & others have said is this has happened since Eve ate the apple, since Montague and Capulet.
The media like to overreact, amplify and place it in a racial context because of the pre-existing climate of fear due to the histrionic reactions to the awful crimes committed by a few people from the Sudan. |
and Video Don't Lie and Cops telling People to Stay Inside and Lock the Doors just because a Few Showed up to have a Fight |
DTM, the police have been attacked by young people lots of times & its awful. At drag races, at parties att schoolies etc. Its opportunistic. Video never lies: depends what story youre trying to tell: when to edit, where to place it after applying inflammatory labels etc. Film makers forever manipulate film / video to tell a story. Dont get sucked in mate. |
Then what about Cops telling People to Stay In Side because of it?
What Proof do you have that Media is just making Stuff Up? |
DTM, point to where I've ever said the media are making it up?
You've made claims not based on what I've posted but on what you think I've posted. There's quite a difference.
You've attributed to me things I've not stated or implied. Then you say where's the evidence for things you've read into my comments not my comments as such.
No one has said others are making things up.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:51 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I don't know if they were. But not all of them? |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Mugwump wrote: | | ^ youre on good form today, Dave. Thats exactly the right question. There is no evidence that anything is being made up here or misreported. |
Ahem. There's no evidence that I stated or others have stated things are being made up (as you well know). DTM has misread comments to him.
However, this puts some perspective on things.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/rumours-thrown-around-what-sparked-brawl-that-had-residents-locking-their-doors-20180809-p4zwji.html
Nothing to see here (although I would have been upset if it were near my place as I would any large group of teenagers etc..)
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | So I guess the Riot last night was all made up according to people saying Media Lie about it |
DTM: Two groups not from the area meeting to fight over a girl. Most were onlookers. What I & others have said is this has happened since Eve ate the apple, since Montague and Capulet.
The media like to overreact, amplify and place it in a racial context because of the pre-existing climate of fear due to the histrionic reactions to the awful crimes committed by a few people from the Sudan. |
and Video Don't Lie and Cops telling People to Stay Inside and Lock the Doors just because a Few Showed up to have a Fight |
That's just baloney DTM. Who said or suggested just a few showed up? This is where you've misrepresented what I posted.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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You posted
Video never lies: depends what story youre trying to tell: when to edit, where to place it after applying inflammatory labels etc. Film makers forever manipulate film / video to tell a story.
You used fancier words, but you were clearly suggesting that substantial elements of this were distorted and manipulated. Is that making things up ? If it is not, its close enough to not matter.
Cant read the Age link as its under paywall.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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David 
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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| stui magpie wrote: | If they report "100 youths..." we assume they're white or a mixed bag
If they're all Sudanese, they report "100 Sudanese youths"
If the offenders were all of Asian origin, guess what? They were all Asian.
Again, how the **** is reporting facts remotely racist? |
I dont think its racist to report offenders ethnicity, and am concerned by attempts to suppress such information. But youve just fairly succinctly articulated why doing so is problematic. If they report 100 youths with the default white presumption one assumes that we have an unemployment problem, a youth disenfranchisement problem, a drug problem, a teenage male problem. If they report 100 African youths, thats interpreted as an African problem. See whats wrong with that picture?
Reporting should be factual, but not gratuitous. Truth lies not just in what you say, but also in what you omit. If you only mention race when the offender belongs to a minority group, then youre shaping the way your readership views the crimes, the perpetrators and the social group to which they belong. So no, its not the facts that are racist, and its not the act of conveying them; its in where the focus is directed, and in what is omitted elsewhere.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Mugwump wrote: | You posted
Video never lies: depends what story youre trying to tell: when to edit, where to place it after applying inflammatory labels etc. Film makers forever manipulate film / video to tell a story.
You used fancier words, but you were clearly suggesting that substantial elements of this were distorted and manipulated. Is that making things up ? If it is not, its close enough to not matter.
Cant read the Age link as its under paywall. |
No, you've also misrepresented what I've posted. What I wrote that you've noted here was directed to the incorrect statment by DTM that Video never lies. I underlined it to make that clear. My comments related to that are not mystifying. You shouldn't distort them either. I showed up DTM"s view by showing how we shouldn't accept on face value what a video shows us.
The assumptions that you've made earlier are simply incorrect here. I'll reprint the article for you from the Age (didn't realize it was under a paywall)
I also heard the Police Commisioner talk about it on radio this morning - the ABC of course.
"It was quite clear to us ... that the intent of the group was to escalate the public order threat and become involved in some sort of violence," the region's police commander Tim Hansen said.
After they were moved on from the shopping centre, the groups caught buses. Some were still in school uniform. Worried about a confrontation, police followed them to Lonzo Park in nearby Taylors Hill.
That's when concerned residents began calling in to report what they were seeing. Some were told to remain in their homes as their streets became a battlefield. There were reports that some were arming themselves with baseball bats.
Local resident Danny Tran: "Its a small minority trying to ruin it for everyone."
"I was really worried," resident Praveen Peddisetti said.
"It was like a war zone, a sting operation with all the heavily armed police. Its the first time anything like that has happened here."
Around 7pm, things turned ugly. Footage shared on social media obtained by ABC News appeared to show two girls fighting as groups watched on. Some threw rocks at each other and at parked vehicles, smashing the window of a police car.
Soon after, riot police carrying shields and wearing helmets moved in. An airwing hovered overhead. Eventually, the groups of rowdy teenagers went home, leaving residents shaken about what had happened in their quiet suburb.
Residents estimated about 100 youths had converged on their neighborhood.
The next morning, there was not a blade of grass out of place that would give a clue of the fighting that had taken place the night before.
With homes all built in the past decade, the area boasts manicured front yards and happy residents.
The average four-bedroom home sells in the area for between $750,000 and $800,000, eliminating most first home buyers from the established market.
The suburb is filled with people of mixed backgrounds who say they know their neighbours and are proud to tell friends where they live.
Resident and Barry Plant real estate agent Danny Tran lives there; so does his mother.
"Im proud to live here because its usually so safe," he said.
"Its a small minority trying to ruin it for everyone."
Some residents reported hearing chanting at the nearby park on Wednesday night, while others said some teens arrived armed with dogs. They say it took police three hours to move the groups on.
By 11am the next day there was a visible police presence, with some officers riding around the street on horseback.
Police say theyve identified some of those responsible and will take appropriate action. No arrests were made on Wednesday nightbut it was expected they would take place late on Thursday. Potential offences could be anything from an affray to criminal damage to riotous behaviour.
Speaking on ABC radio on Thursday, chief commissioner Graham Ashton said many of the youths who gathered were turning up to watch the fight. He described the fight being sparked by "girlfriends or something like that".
"You can call them gangs ... But if you think of them as gangs it's not the way we tend to respond to them as they don't have the traditional thing that we think groups have," he said.
"These are groups that use social media."
In the aftermath, local community leaders were trying to work out exactly what had led to another troubling incident involving young Sudanese-Australians.
Achol Marial, youth affairs officer for the South Sudanese Community Association in Victoria, said the fight had been organised between several girls because of rumours being shared on social media.
"It was based on rumours being thrown around about one another, things about each other," she said.
"I think before [the fight] other young people knew there was going to be a fight and called on one another to come down and witness it. Thats why so many teens were there."
She said community leaders knew the girls involved and were planning on speaking to their parents on Thursday afternoon.
Prominent Sudanese Australian lawyer and community leader Maker Mayek said police had told him the plans for the fight were made public in a Facebook post circulated on Wednesday.
"Its very unfortunate that young people at school are going out late at night, it goes to show theres not monitoring of these young people, if they were still in school uniform what are they doing out?" Mr Mayek said.
Those sentiments were shared by Kenyatta Joshua Dei Wal, spokesperson for the African Australian Community Taskforce.
"We call on all young people to respect the law, and not disturb the peace," he said.
It's no more remarkable than any group of teengaers going to fight each other (school girls it looks like) with lots of hangers on. It's been happening since Romeo & Juliet although the gender here & racial goups don't seem to be the same.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:21 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | If they report "100 youths..." we assume they're white or a mixed bag
If they're all Sudanese, they report "100 Sudanese youths"
If the offenders were all of Asian origin, guess what? They were all Asian.
Again, how the **** is reporting facts remotely racist? |
I dont think its racist to report offenders ethnicity, and am concerned by attempts to suppress such information. But youve just fairly succinctly articulated why doing so is problematic. If they report 100 youths with the default white presumption one assumes that we have an unemployment problem, a youth disenfranchisement problem, a drug problem, a teenage male problem. If they report 100 African youths, thats interpreted as an African problem. See whats wrong with that picture?
Reporting should be factual, but not gratuitous. Truth lies not just in what you say, but also in what you omit. If you only mention race when the offender belongs to a minority group, then youre shaping the way your readership views the crimes, the perpetrators and the social group to which they belong. So no, its not the facts that are racist, and its not the act of conveying them; its in where the focus is directed, and in what is omitted elsewhere. |
When this is mostly happening among African youths and not others, we probably do not have an employment problem, a drug problem, a teenage male problem....
It is what it is. recognising that its a problem with Sudanese youth does not stop you having harder or softer edged ways to deal with it. But most of the stuff in these pages is deflecting the idea that its a Sudanese youth problem. Which is probably the worst way to help Sudanese youth.....
_________________
Two more flags before I die!
Last edited by Mugwump on Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David
to wish impossible things
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: the edge of the deep green sea
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...and thats where youre so profoundly wrong on this topic.
_________________
"Every time we witness an injustice and do not act, we train our character to be passive in its presence." – Julian Assange |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ read my edit.
And as for being profoundly wrong, youll need to argue it, just saying it wastes bytes.
The logic is that other groups have these problems, yet do not seem represented so. Apparently half of the people involved in the riots yesterday were in school uniform. Not really an employment problem, there.
Sudanese human beings are no intrinsically worse than any other kind of human. But they come from a very disrupted and damaged society, with a very different cultural setting. I have said a hundred times that we need to work on integrating those that are here, deporting lawbreakers who are not citizens. While we do that, we should take no more. Our governments responsibility is to Australian citizens and lawful residents.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ WPT the same old deflections. Its just like Shakespeare. Used to happen all the time. Nothing to worry about unduly. No particular issue.
Just installed a new intersection on what was once a smooth road ? Problems at new intersection? Lots of crashes and injuries, risk of death ? Pfft, there have always been deaths at intersections. Nothing to see here. Sensationalist reporting. Who photographed the police car anyway ?
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Two more flags before I die! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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/\ not me! Bugger
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Mugwump wrote: | ^ WPT the same old deflections. Its just like Shakespeare. Used to happen all the time. Nothing to worry about unduly. No particular issue.
Just installed a new intersection on what was once a smooth road ? Problems at new intersection? Lots of crashes and injuries, risk of death ? Pfft, there have always been deaths at intersections. Nothing to see here. Sensationalist reporting. Who photographed the police car anyway ? |
No defelction whatsoever: that's become your standard reflexive response. There really is nothing to see here. Fights between teenagers. Police had it under control. However if you choose to panic that's your individual response. I trust the police here rather than your view of the situation.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ ah, this old panic canard. Dealt with that one somewhere yesterday. In trouble with the logic of your position ? Accuse the other party of social panic, even though there is manifestly no trace of anything like panic at all. Its a dead giveaway.
When I use a word, said Humpty Dumpty, it means exactly what I choose it to mean, neither more not less....
Written above the door of Pravda.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Mugwump wrote: | ^ ah, this old panic canard. Dealt with that one somewhere yesterday. In trouble with the logic of your position ? Accuse the other party of social panic, even though there is manifestly no trace of anything like panic at all. Its a dead giveaway.
When I use a word, said Humpty Dumpty, it means exactly what I choose it to mean, neither more not less....
Written above the door of Pravda. |
Nazis, Pravda yawn....
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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